Different flavors of relational database

[ca.portal.admin]

We did a comparison retrieval between IDMS/SQL (on the mainframe) and SQL
Server (on a Windows server). A database was defined the same way on both,
and loaded with the same data. Queries that used keys (index or calc) had
about the same response time on both. But queries that generated an area
sweep ran noticeably faster on SQL Server, for example
1 second vs. 15 seconds. I am trying to figure out why such a big
difference.

I did not consider the response time for area sweep unreasonable for the
size of the database. But the programmer insisted that it was, and proved
his point with the SQL Server demo. I considered these queries to be large
(for online access), but the SQL Server DBA said that they are considered
small by SQL Server standards. They reported that DB2 (on AIX) could also
do similarly large queries with subsecond response time.

I do realize that there are many differences between the environments, i.e.
hardware, software, operating system, DASD, number of users, etc.
But is there something inherently different about IDMS/SQL that would cause
large queries (area sweeps) to run so much slower than the other two
relational databases?

If anyone else has done similar comparison testing, would you be willing to
share your results?

Kay Rozeboom
State of Iowa
Information Technology Enterprise
Department of Administrative Services
Telephone: [phone] Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]

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Re: Different flavors of relational database
"I would begin by looking at the SMF data to nail down how much time was
actually spent in IDMS. Different network paths to the data sources can
add incredible amounts of the elapsed time of a transaction. We've had
customer web applications that develop and test on the DB2 LUW
environment and then complain about elapsed times when they move to
z/OS. When I look at the SMF data the in-DB2 times are about the same
on z/OS as the were on LUW but the application is now going through
several firewalls and competing for network resources with the rest of
the production workload.

[ca.portal.admin]

We did a comparison retrieval between IDMS/SQL (on the mainframe) and
SQL Server (on a Windows server). A database was defined the same way
on both, and loaded with the same data. Queries that used keys (index
or calc) had about the same response time on both. But queries that
generated an area sweep ran noticeably faster on SQL Server, for example
1 second vs. 15 seconds. I am trying to figure out why such a big
difference.

I did not consider the response time for area sweep unreasonable for the
size of the database. But the programmer insisted that it was, and
proved his point with the SQL Server demo. I considered these queries
to be large (for online access), but the SQL Server DBA said that they
are considered small by SQL Server standards. They reported that DB2
(on AIX) could also do similarly large queries with subsecond response
time.

I do realize that there are many differences between the environments,
i.e. hardware, software, operating system, DASD, number of users, etc.
But is there something inherently different about IDMS/SQL that would
cause large queries (area sweeps) to run so much slower than the other
two relational databases?

If anyone else has done similar comparison testing, would you be willing
to share your results?

Kay Rozeboom
State of Iowa
Information Technology Enterprise
Department of Administrative Services
Telephone: [phone] Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]

"
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Signup procedures for new employee
"You can also go to the IUA website (www.iuassn.org) and click on the 'join the IUA' button. One of the options in joining the IUA is to subscribe to IDMSL.

Note: Membership in the IUA is free, even though the site currently indicates there is a charge. After hitting the send button, click cancel when it asks you to pay dues and you are registered and signed up for IDMSL.

We're working on changing the website, but as volunteers, we only have so much time to give. We're always looking for folks to help with the administration of the IUA......any takers?

Bob

________________________________

From: IDMS 3rd-party providers forum on behalf of Bill Allen
Sent: Tue 5/2/2006 7:36 AM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Signup procedures for new employee



Hello All:

Can someone send me the signup procedures for the IDMS-L, I have a new
person that I need to get involved with the IUA.

Bill Allen

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Re: Different flavors of relational database
"The main differences are
Data clustering
Multiblock reads
Parallel reads

You indicate that you use CALC records in IDMS, you do not mention how much
space they take up of the entire area. MS SQL would likely cluster the
table rows together and need to read a much smaller part of the tablespace,
while IDMS will need to read the entire area. On a much larger database
your IDMS CALC look-ups would likely kick butt compared to SQL Server.

And for tablescans(aresweeps), it may result it acceptable response times
on a small database with few users, but would be costly on a large database
with high activity.

Tommy Petersen
110 Cokesbury Rd
Room 542H
Lebanon, NJ 08833

Phone:
Internal 200 - 3699
External [phone]
Fax: [phone]




Joe Perkins
<jmperkins@SERVIC
EISMYLINE.COM> To
Sent by: IDMS [e-mail]
Public Discussion cc
Forum
<IDMS-L@LISTSERV. Subject
IUASSN.COM> Re: Different flavors of relational
database

05/02/2006 01:34
PM


Please respond to
IDMS Public
Discussion Forum
<IDMS-L@LISTSERV.
IUASSN.COM>






Hi Kay,
Tell us more about how many table occurrences are being read over how many
pages? How is the data clustered on the SQL Server side? SQL Server
certainly can cache / perform look ahead

Are these SQL tables defined as TABLES thru IDMS/SQL? If so, the default
index is still in place?

Mainframe should kick butt on I/O and general responsebut you probably need
to look at what SQL Server is doing via indexes and caching to minimize
I/O.

Regards,
Joe Perkins

[ca.portal.admin]

We did a comparison retrieval between IDMS/SQL (on the mainframe) and SQL
Server (on a Windows server). A database was defined the same way on both,
and loaded with the same data. Queries that used keys (index or calc) had
about the same response time on both. But queries that generated an area
sweep ran noticeably faster on SQL Server, for example
1 second vs. 15 seconds. I am trying to figure out why such a big
difference.

I did not consider the response time for area sweep unreasonable for the
size of the database. But the programmer insisted that it was, and proved
his point with the SQL Server demo. I considered these queries to be large
(for online access), but the SQL Server DBA said that they are considered
small by SQL Server standards. They reported that DB2 (on AIX) could also
do similarly large queries with subsecond response time.

I do realize that there are many differences between the environments, i.e.
hardware, software, operating system, DASD, number of users, etc.
But is there something inherently different about IDMS/SQL that would cause
large queries (area sweeps) to run so much slower than the other two
relational databases?

If anyone else has done similar comparison testing, would you be willing to
share your results?

Kay Rozeboom
State of Iowa
Information Technology Enterprise
Department of Administrative Services
Telephone: [phone] Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]

"
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R16 SP4 beta
"Hi there,

Are you interested in faster database reorganizations that reduce outage
time? Are you interested in improved compliance and audit reporting?

These new Advantage CA-IDMS r16 SP4 features are now available to
CA-IDMS z/OS customers for beta testing. More information and
registration for the CA-IDMS r16 SP4 Beta Program is available by going
to http://ca.com/betas and selecting Advantage CA-IDMS/DB Database r16 SP4.

Laura Rochon
IUA

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"Re: [IDMSVENDOR-L] Support connect problem, sad news"
"the sad news is that CA has implemented SAP as their ERP product. I
wonder which database it is
on? =20



Well, for CA;s sake, I hope it is not on DB2 - SAP implemented ""smart""
release-dependent code (which sounds good on the surface) but, for those
who are familiar with DB2 v8 - it does not check which mode you are in, so
as soon as it sees V8, it runs code in NewFunctionMode, when at first most
SAP/DB2V8 clients would be in ComplianceMode!!!

we have had problems for years with coming in on a Monday morning to
find many of our products marked as cancelled - seems they do a weekly
rebuild of the products/license/client database, but if it fails on the
Sunday night, there appears to be no immediate restart and we have to
fight tooth and nail to get things corrected - I would say this has
happened to my sites 5 or 6 times over the last 15 years (twice is once
too many in my mind- anything can happen once)


chris ""yes - i admit it - i am the DB2 install DBA as well at Humana - i
am sooooo ashamed"" Hoelscher



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"Support connect problem, sad news"
"Hi folks.

We are getting ready to upgrade from z/OS 1.4 to 1.7. As part of my due
diligence I went to SupportConnect look for any apars, tech notes, etc..
I couldn't get to any of my IDMS products. After contacting
SupportConnect support, I was told that it was due to a problem with the
ERP conversion that CA did recently. All of my IDMS products are being
shown as canceled. While this will be fixed, the sad news is that CA
has implemented SAP as their ERP product. I wonder which database it is
on?

Jim


Jim Rice
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SO Linc 2988/770.550.2988

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Re: Signup procedures for new employee
"You can also go to http://www.lsoft.com/catalist.html
and search for IDMS or any other product you may be
interested in and it will give details of how to sign
up.

--- Bill Allen <[e-mail]> wrote:

Hello All:

Can someone send me the signup procedures for the
IDMS-L, I have a new
person that I need to get involved with the IUA.

Bill Allen

Regards,
Tony



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Re: Different flavors of relational database
"I've added some discussion after each question below. HTH - cheers - Gary

Gary Cherlet
Justice Technology Services
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