Hosting applications for customers

[jonnytabpni77]

Hi sent an email to VMWare support, asking them if I could host VMs for my paying customers on ESXi 4. I got an answer, which was "no" which is fair enough.

I then asked another question, asking if I was allowed to host a web server, email server, java application server, database server etc. for customers. Again, I got a reply "no", which suprised me, as the EULA seems to say that I can:

"*VMware

grants you a nonexclusive, non-transferable license*, without rights to

sublicense, to install or have installed a single instance of the Software

and each Licensed Additional Module on a single Server, unless permitted to have

multiple instances on a single Server or to have multiple instances on multiple

Servers by the payment of applicable license fees (whether such fees are based

on a per Processor, a per Virtual Machine, a per user or any other VMware

approved licensing model); (ii) use the Software and each Licensed Additional

Module solely for information processing and computing purposes,

including the hosting of computer application-based services from a

Virtual Machine and provisioning of such services via an internal or external

network for third parties, provided such services do not allow the

third parties to install, upload, or uninstall computer application(s) to and

from the Virtual Machine(s); "

Does anyone here know if I am allowed to do this?

Many Thanks

[golddiggie]

I think there was some kind of miscommunication between you and VMware support...

You can make whatever you want for VM's on ESXi 4, just like you can on ESX 4... What you do with those VM's is totally up to you. If I wanted to start hosting web sites for people (paying customers or just friends) then I could. Provided, of course, I lined up the additional technologies I'd need for the communication to the web for those VM's. It would be the same thing if you had not used ESXi in the mix and had decided to use physical servers for each customer (the old method)... Now, with ESX/ESXi you can have a single host server, and create additional VM's so that each customer/client (client is probably a better word to use when communicating with the VMware people) has a server that won't impact anyone else's server.

If you're going to host applications for others, I would suggest having a SAN for the VM's to reside upon as well as at least two host servers set up for HA/DRS to ensure you don't have down time if one host fails/has issues. Make sure you have support for the hosts (hardware and software) as well as the SAN. I would also make sure you have a backup and recovery solution in place, not just the SAN. If people are paying you to host apps/sites/etc, you need to also have some kind of SLA in place (if you don't already) and provision for in the event the client's server has a failure, what the turnaround time will be for getting it back online.

They might have thought that you wanted to charge people to use the actual ESX/ESXi host server. That's not something I would do.

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[jonnytabpni77]

Hi golddiggie,

Thanks for the tips and fantastic advice.

So in a nutshell, for the free version of ESXi, "paying clients" are allowed to use applications running on the VMs (E.g. host a website for them, email sevrer for them etc), but they arn't allowed shell/desktop access to the VMs, is this correct?

I do indeed have a SAN for the HDDs and content is backed up to a remote server off-site on a nightly basis.

Thanks

[golddiggie]

Sounds about right... I would recommend purchasing a license for ESX/ESXi though... Especially if you're going to be making money with this. :smileywink: That way you'll also have support from VMware on your host(s) in case you need it... There's at least one really cheap option available... "VMware vSphere 4 Essentialls Bundle for 3 hosts (Max 2 processors per host and 6 cores per prococessor) + Subscription for 1 year" $495... I wish I was working full time so that I could purchase it right now.. Although there's still some time since the special is running through June 15, 2010...

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[jonnytabpni77]

When you say "recommend purchasing a license", do you mean that I need to? Or just that I probably should for the support?

Thanks

[golddiggie]

Recommend as in I would if I was you, but by no means is this a requirement... If you want to get any support for the hosts and/or VM's you're either running now, or plan to in the future, it would be a good idea to get the licensing. Plus, you'll have more features than just what you get from the free product (could also be very useful to you for not a lot of money)...

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[jonnytabpni77]

Thanks for the replies.

Honestly, I would purchase the support if I could afford it, but I'm not making a lot of money from this hosting system.

Cheers

[golddiggie]

If you're doing this as a business, there's a high chance you could include it in the write-off's come tax time (check with your accountant)... At under $500, it's a bargain. Normally it's almost a grand (hence the 50% off promotion)... If I was using the VMware product for a business, I'd obtain the license, with the support it includes, and not worry about it. If you're not making enough to cover that, and what it costs you to run the host server, there's something seriously wrong... Of course, most new businesses run in the red for the first 6-36 months. If you can't start turning a profit at the end of the first 3 years, then chances are you never will. You should be able to at least break even before the end of year two.

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[jonnytabpni77]

What you are saying is true, however I should let you know that what I am doing is "incidental" use of my ESXi box for paying customers. I'm not running a hosting business from my vmware box per se, however there are times where some applications on some of the VMs are for customers.

The $500, is that per year, or a perpetual license? I know that the support expires after a year, but what about the ESX license? Then again, with just one box, it probably isn't worth it..

Thanks

[golddiggie]

I believe it would be a recurring cost... Since you're doing it more as a hobby that pays a tiny amount (guessing not even enough in a year to cover the discounted license) it doesn't make sense... I would just be prepared to go for the license (with support) later, if it turns into something more...

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[jonnytabpni77]

That's good advice, I'll keep that in mind.

As long as for the time being that the free version doesn't stop me from hosting applications for customers, then I'm ok.

Of course, if I was doing this as a major part of the business, then I'd have to colo the servers in a proper datacenter etc..

[jonnytabpni77]

Reading the EULA again, somethings got me thinking:

"provided such services do not allow the

third parties to install, upload, or uninstall computer application(s)

to and

from the Virtual Machine(s); "

Am I allowed to host an email server for customers? If there were to send an attachment which was an application.....

Also, do you reckon it would be ok to use another VM solution (e.g. OpenVZ) for giving a customer shell/desktop access, but let them use some applications running on some VMWare VMs throught the OpenVS shell/desktop?

Again, this is all hypothetical..

Thanks

[golddiggie]

You're not planning on letting people install applications on the VM's are you? Email is just data traffic, even attachments, since they are just routed through the email server between accounts. At least that's my take on it. I am going to run my own Exchange 2010 email server on a VM in my home lab at some point (soon). Since I have the license for the software, there's no issue there.

I would tell the people that you'll be hosting the systems for that you need to be the one to install software onto the VM's/systems so that you can ensure that nothing gets messed up.

I would say that using the right tools to do the job would be the best course of action... Since you're not making anything on this (hypothetically or not) I wouldn't worry too much. EULA's are typically fairly draconian. For tiny fish (not even a fish egg yet) like us, I wouldn't worry too much.

If possible, bounce your hypotheticals off of a VMware rep (maybe the one your day job uses, if they have one) or one of the people at a VMware partner company. You could pose the question/situation at one of the VMware user group meetings, the next time you're able to attend one. Or a few other people to make sure you're not out in la-la land...

One thing I would make sure of... Secure each VM so that only you have the admin rights, and that only the people that must connect to those VM's are in the user group for that VM's OS...

Are the VM's going to be Linux or Windows based?

Personally,

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[jonnytabpni77]

Nope, I'm not planning on allowing anyone else to install or remove applications on the VMs. My concern was the word "upload", as by sending an attachment which was an application, that could be classed as "uploading to a VM"? Or is that just a stretch?

For the customers, Linux all the way. Microsoft's SPLA is just too much hassle when Linux can do the same things for free, especially when users arn't allowed to add/remove apps.

My day job is a Citrix XenServer house, which doesn't support my favourite O/S, Ubuntu :smileysad:

[golddiggie]

I think your stretching the EULA's reach beyond a bit..

Even though you can use/run ubuntu on ESX/ESXi VM's, I'm not a fan (at all) of it... Far too ghetto, bubblegum, and made for the dumb mAsses for me... Linux distro of choice, for me, is CentOS (version 5.x right now)... I don't even care for fedora with it's past few releases. If I'm going to run a Linux VM, it's going to be a server, not as a desktop system. Actually, I've always used Linux as servers, even when I was running them on actual hardware (back in my VMware Server use days)...

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