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GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

  • 1.  GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Posted Mar 30, 2023 09:36 AM

    The documentation page on ACTIVITIES_LIMIT Parameters does not adequately describe the difference between these two limits, nor how they work together.

    I'm guessing that it's something like this: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is the maximum number of results retrieved before applying filters in the AWI, and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is the maximum number displayed after filters have been applied. Unfortunately, the text in the documentation does not make this clear at all.

    Would someone be so kind as to provide an explanation?



  • 2.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Posted Apr 13, 2023 02:12 AM

    Could someone from Broadcom answer this question? I can open a support case if necessary.




  • 3.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Broadcom Employee
    Posted Apr 14, 2023 09:49 AM

    Hi @Michael A. Lowry 

    I hope my answer clarifies your questions.

    The value GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT specifies the maximum number of records the Automation Engine will return to AWI.

    The value COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT specifies how many tasks (or "lines") at maximum are displayed in AWI. 

    If COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is greater than GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT only GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT records are processed/displayed by AWI.

    Michael




  • 4.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Posted Apr 14, 2023 10:09 AM
    Edited by Michael A. Lowry Apr 17, 2023 06:33 AM

    Thanks, @Michael Dolinek. That is helpful. If you don't mind answering a few follow-up questions, I would appreciate it.

    Consider the following scenario:

    • GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is set to 5,000.
    • COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is set to 1,000.
    • There are 10,000 active tasks, whereof 2,000 have ENDED_OK.
    • All Queues is selected in the Process Monitoring perspective.

    Questions:

    1. If no filters are applied, how many tasks will be retrieved/displayed? (I assume the answer is 5,000/1,000.)
    2. If the filter Status=OK is applied, how many tasks will be retrieved/displayed? (I assume the answer is 2,000/1,000.)
    3. Are filters applied only on the AWI side to limit which tasks are displayed, or do filters also impact which tasks are retrieved from the AE server?
    4. How is the ActivityList Java API impacted by GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT? (I assume the Java API is impacted only by GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT.)



    Thanks in advance. 

    I'd also like to suggest that @Gabi Oberreiter consider adding an example like the one here to the documentation.



  • 5.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Broadcom Employee
    Posted Apr 17, 2023 09:04 AM

    Hi @Michael A. Lowry 

    Answers:

    1. correct, the smaller number determines the maximum number of entries displayed
    2. the AE returns at maximum GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT entries with the status OK
    3. the filters are applied on AE side
    4. COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is a setting for AWI

    Be aware that AWI caches the values for GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT, so changes are taken into account immediately.

    Michael




  • 6.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Posted Apr 18, 2023 05:25 AM
    Edited by Michael A. Lowry Apr 18, 2023 05:25 AM

    Thanks again, @Michael Dolinek.

    If my understanding is correct, your answer to question #2 should be amended to mention the lower COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT described in the scenario, rather than the higher GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT.
    If there are 2,000 tasks that have the status ENDED_OK, the filters are defined to show only tasks with the status ENDED_OK, and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is set to 1,000, the AWI will display only half (1,000) of the tasks that match the filter. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

    I also have a couple of follow-up questions:

    1. If filters are applied on the AE side, what is the benefit of retrieving more records than can be displayed?
    2. Does COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT also apply to statistics searches?


  • 7.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Posted Apr 25, 2023 04:09 AM

    @Michael Dolinek, when you have a chance, could you take a look at my follow-up questions? Thanks!




  • 8.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Broadcom Employee
    Posted Apr 28, 2023 04:30 AM

    Hi @Michael A. Lowry 

    The configuration parameters COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT are taken into account by AWI when displaying data in different views. (see https://docs.automic.com/documentation/webhelp/english/ALL/components/DOCU/21.0.5/Automic%20Automation%20Guides/Content/AWA/Variables/UC_SYSTEM_SETTINGS/UC_SYSTEM_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT_Parameters.htm).

    For Statics the setting GENERIC_STATISTICS_LIMIT and GENERIC_SEARCH_LIMIT are taken into account (see https://docs.automic.com/documentation/webhelp/english/ALL/components/DOCU/21.0.5/Automic%20Automation%20Guides/Content/AWA/Variables/UC_SYSTEM_SETTINGS/UC_SYSTEM_GENERIC_STATISTICS_LIMIT.htm and https://docs.automic.com/documentation/webhelp/english/ALL/components/DOCU/21.0.5/Automic%20Automation%20Guides/Content/AWA/Variables/UC_SYSTEM_SETTINGS/UC_SYSTEM_GENERIC_SEARCH_LIMIT.htm).

    Michael




  • 9.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Posted May 02, 2023 05:44 AM
    Edited by Antony Beeston May 04, 2023 09:38 AM

    Thanks for the reply @Michael Dolinek.

    The configuration parameters COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT are taken into account by AWI when displaying data in different views.

    What do you mean by different views? Can you confirm that COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT also applies to statistics searches? If you would be so kind, I would just like simple yes or no answer to this question.

    When you get a chance, I would also like a straightforward answer to my first question: If filters are applied on the AE side, what is the benefit of retrieving more records than can be displayed?

    Thanks again.



  • 10.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Posted May 23, 2023 03:31 AM
    Edited by Michael A. Lowry May 23, 2023 03:32 AM

    @Michael Dolinek, have you had a chance to look at my follow-up questions?



  • 11.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Broadcom Employee
    Posted Jun 20, 2023 05:58 AM

    Hi @Michael A. Lowry 

    Q1) If filters are applied on the AE side, what is the benefit of retrieving more records than can be displayed?
    A1) This is a limitation of the current implementation that only the filter criteria are taken into account for the result set but not maximum numbers of rows to displayed. 

    Q2) Does COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT also apply to statistics searches?
    A2) No, the setting COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is not considered for statistics searches



    ------------------------------
    Michael K. Dolinek

    Engineering Program Manager | Agile Operation Division
    Broadcom Software
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Posted Jun 28, 2023 05:31 PM
    Edited by Michael A. Lowry Jun 28, 2023 05:31 PM

    I still do not understand how these two limits work.

    I opened a support ticket, hoping to learn more. Unfortunately the support specialist simply copied and pasted excerpts from this discussion thread, refused to answer the new questions I raised, and suggested that I submit ideas for these questions.

    Knowing how Broadcom handles ideas, this value of this effort seems dubious at best.

    Here are the questions Broadcom Support failed to answer. Perhaps someone will graciously respond.

    1. What is the difference between the two limits?
    2. Why are there two different limits instead of just one?
    3. In what different contexts does each limit apply? (E.g., Activities/Statistics, AWI/Java APIs/REST APIs)
    4. When should we use one limit, and when should we use the other?



  • 13.  RE: GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT and COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT

    Posted Sep 07, 2023 11:43 AM
    Edited by Michael A. Lowry Sep 11, 2023 02:54 AM

    Broadcom Support attempted for a few more months to answer my questions in the support ticket, but ultimately failed to do so.

    My observations follow.

    GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT has been around for a long time. (The earliest documentation I was able to find is version 11.) This setting limited the number of results displayed in Activities windows in the UC4 Java User Interface (Dialog Client). Here is the relevant excerpt from the v11 documentation:

    Depending on the specified filter settings, the Activity Window displays the corresponding tasks. If it contains numerous active tasks, performance is affected negatively because refreshing the Activity Window at short intervals is very CPU-intensive. Therefore, you can limit the maximum number of activities to be displayed using the entry GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT. A message in the Activity Window's status line indicates that there are more active tasks than displayed. Limit the Activity Window filter so that non-displayed tasks can also be viewed.

    The setting presumably also limited the number of tasks displayed in the Process Monitoring perspective of the Enterprise Control Center (the old name for the AWI). However, the documentation does not state this explicitly.

    COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT was added in version 12, but the description did not clearly explain how it differed from the existing setting. This note was added below the description of GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT, in an apparent attempt to explain how the two settings interacted:

    Please note that, in AWI, the number of activities is further restricted by COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT. If the value of GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is higher than the value defined in COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT, only part of the tasks available for requests on the task list will actually be displayed on the task list.

    In version 12.1, a new documentation page was added: List of Tasks. This page was another apparent attempt to clarify the different functions of the two settings. The following excerpt comes the closest to accomplishing this goal:

    In AWI, the number of activities is further restricted by COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT. If the value of GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is higher than the value defined in COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT, only part of the tasks available for requests on the task list will actually be displayed on the task list.

    This appears to suggest that if GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT is higher than COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT, a larger number of tasks than those displayed might be "available for requests." It is unclear how one might perform requests on tasks that are not displayed.

    The v21 documentation includes a page called ACTIVITIES_LIMIT parameters that essentially repeats the unclear explanation of the v12.1 documentation.

    Several Broadcom staff members have suggested that GENERIC_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT applies to the Automation Engine, while COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT applies to the Automic Web Interface (AWI). If this is true, it's hard to see what difference it would make from a user's or administrator's perspective. Regardless of which one is lower, the lower of the two always takes precedence. (If the Automation Engine is capable of sending a larger list of tasks to the AWI than the AWI can handle, a trace of AE→AWI communication might confirm or disprove this.)

    It is possible that Broadcom added COMBINED_ACTIVITIES_LIMIT with the intention of providing additional capabilities in the future, such as:

    • AWI-side (or even browser-side) filtering
    • Actions on the entire list, not just the displayed list


    However, neither of these capabilities appears to be present in the product today. Task filters are applied by the Automation Engine, not the AWI, and there are no evident actions one can perform on the whole list of retrieved tasks, rather than on just the displayed list. And obviously, for the AE to send a list of 5000 tasks to the AWI when the AWI can use only 500 of them is a waste of resources.

    Given the above observations, it is difficult to imagine any scenario where it would be useful to set different values for the two limits.

    The defaults differ by a factor of 10.