Automic Workload Automation

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

In order to give more context to @Lester Chew question. He is referring to the statement "You must enable a Windows Beta feature so that the "ODBC driver for SQL server" can work with UTF-8 data."  at https://docs.automic.com/documentation/webhelp/english/AA/24.1/DOCU/24.1/Automic%20Automation%20Guides/Content/Installation_Common/PreparationSteps/PrepareAEDB_MSSQL.htm 

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2024 02:20 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

------------------------------
Lester Chew

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 02, 2024 03:37 AM
From: Anicet TAGNE
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

------------------------------
[Automic Automation Consultant]
[Paris, France]

Original Message:
Sent: Jul 31, 2024 01:38 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

I would like to apologize, this is a wrong info in the user documentation. The source and destination DB don't have to be on a different host.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, but also some other aspects that might got mixed up and/or were unclear so far.

The basic idea is as follows (MSSQL):

• You do have a non-UTF-8 (old Automic Automation version) and a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data yet) on one DB host/server
• You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
• You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack
• You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the AE host now has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host. We recommend to not operate an AE of an older version in parallel to the V24 upgrade one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly with this enabled Window Beta setting.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 07, 2024 11:34 AM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2024 02:20 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

------------------------------
Lester Chew

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 02, 2024 03:37 AM
From: Anicet TAGNE
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

------------------------------
[Automic Automation Consultant]
[Paris, France]

Original Message:
Sent: Jul 31, 2024 01:38 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Hello Martin,

just to make sure I understood correctly, let me re-phrase the information you just provided:

Given an existing environment with

• one MSSQL DB server running the V21 AE database
• one ore more AE application servers running the V21 AE binaries

the steps to upgrade to V24 are:

• setup an additional database on the already existing MSSQL DB server => most likely I'd need to double storage beforehand as the V21 database is basically duplicated - correct?
  
  
• one ALL AE application servers - but not the DB server - enable the Windows beta feature => V21 will run with the beta feature enabled! 
  Can Broadcom guarantee that V21 will operate normally (as it would without this setting) in this situation under all circumstances?
• perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack => Did you check on the potential performance impact for a busy, productive environment while the entire database is basically replicated on the same hardware?
  
  
• 'upgrade' to V24 => execute the last phase of the migration pack, exchange the binaries and restart the system - correct?

Please let me know of I understood correctly, if I missed any (important or unimportant) step AND if you - as the vendor - can guarantee that our production system will work correctly and reliably during the transition phase, given the fact that the beta feature on windows will be active while V21 is still running.

Let me add some questions at the end to help me understand the process and with the goal to minimize the impact on the production environment:

• which component exactly, requires the windows beta feature during the phase where the database is converted via copy to the second database?
• would it be possible to have this very component on a separate server and would it be sufficient to activate the beta feature only there? This way the V21 server would not need to have - a basically unsupported - beta feature enabled.
• Would Broadcom be willing to support a scenario where one would switch the database vendor during the migration? We are thinking of switching to Oracle and it would be great to save the extra copy step ....

Many Thanks in advance! 

Best Regards,

René

p.s.: Our AE database is about 1TB in size and we are running about 1 million JOBS/JOBF per day. We really need this transition to be flawless.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 08, 2024 06:18 AM
From: Martin Uferbach
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I would like to apologize, this is a wrong info in the user documentation. The source and destination DB don't have to be on a different host.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, but also some other aspects that might got mixed up and/or were unclear so far.

The basic idea is as follows (MSSQL):

• You do have a non-UTF-8 (old Automic Automation version) and a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data yet) on one DB host/server
• You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
• You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack
• You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the AE host now has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host. We recommend to not operate an AE of an older version in parallel to the V24 upgrade one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly with this enabled Window Beta setting.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 07, 2024 11:34 AM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2024 02:20 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

------------------------------
Lester Chew

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 02, 2024 03:37 AM
From: Anicet TAGNE
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

------------------------------
[Automic Automation Consultant]
[Paris, France]

Original Message:
Sent: Jul 31, 2024 01:38 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Hi Rene, 

I refined my previous post by the one below, I hope it answers your questions and that of the others:

We would like to apologize, this info in the user documentation is incorrect/misleading. 

The source and destination MSSQL AE DB don't have to be on a different host, but can be on different hosts.
The AE DB Migration actionpack provides an option (promptsets) to support two AE DB hosts for MSSQL.

The basic process is as follows (MSSQL):

1. You have a non-UTF-8 (V21) and create a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data loaded yet) on one or two separated DB hosts
2. You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack (mind the promptsets option for two DB hosts), the data migration is completed
3. You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the V24 AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
4. You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the V24 AE host has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host.
We recommend installing the V24 AE on a separate host than the V21 one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly on the V24 AE host with this enabled Window Beta setting.

AE DB Migration and Performance
The migration process has the biggest impact on the destination AE DB (write data), the impact on the source AE DB is lower (read data only). To lower the impact on your old V21 system to be upgraded, you can separate the source and destination AE DB on different hosts (MSSQL).

Components impacted by the Windows Beta feature
The impacted components are all V24 AE processes that access the AE DB. To lower/mitigate the impact of the old V21 system to be upgraded, installing the V24 AE on a separate host makes sense.

DB Vendor change during Migration
A change of the DB vendor during the AE DB migration process is not supported today.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, and we will also refine it with the info stated above.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 09, 2024 01:45 AM
From: Rene Kappel
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hello Martin,

just to make sure I understood correctly, let me re-phrase the information you just provided:

Given an existing environment with

• one MSSQL DB server running the V21 AE database
• one ore more AE application servers running the V21 AE binaries

the steps to upgrade to V24 are:

• setup an additional database on the already existing MSSQL DB server => most likely I'd need to double storage beforehand as the V21 database is basically duplicated - correct?
  
  
• one ALL AE application servers - but not the DB server - enable the Windows beta feature => V21 will run with the beta feature enabled! 
  Can Broadcom guarantee that V21 will operate normally (as it would without this setting) in this situation under all circumstances?
• perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack => Did you check on the potential performance impact for a busy, productive environment while the entire database is basically replicated on the same hardware?
  
  
• 'upgrade' to V24 => execute the last phase of the migration pack, exchange the binaries and restart the system - correct?

Please let me know of I understood correctly, if I missed any (important or unimportant) step AND if you - as the vendor - can guarantee that our production system will work correctly and reliably during the transition phase, given the fact that the beta feature on windows will be active while V21 is still running.

Let me add some questions at the end to help me understand the process and with the goal to minimize the impact on the production environment:

• which component exactly, requires the windows beta feature during the phase where the database is converted via copy to the second database?
• would it be possible to have this very component on a separate server and would it be sufficient to activate the beta feature only there? This way the V21 server would not need to have - a basically unsupported - beta feature enabled.
• Would Broadcom be willing to support a scenario where one would switch the database vendor during the migration? We are thinking of switching to Oracle and it would be great to save the extra copy step ....

Many Thanks in advance! 

Best Regards,

René

p.s.: Our AE database is about 1TB in size and we are running about 1 million JOBS/JOBF per day. We really need this transition to be flawless.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 08, 2024 06:18 AM
From: Martin Uferbach
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I would like to apologize, this is a wrong info in the user documentation. The source and destination DB don't have to be on a different host.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, but also some other aspects that might got mixed up and/or were unclear so far.

The basic idea is as follows (MSSQL):

• You do have a non-UTF-8 (old Automic Automation version) and a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data yet) on one DB host/server
• You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
• You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack
• You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the AE host now has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host. We recommend to not operate an AE of an older version in parallel to the V24 upgrade one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly with this enabled Window Beta setting.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 07, 2024 11:34 AM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2024 02:20 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

------------------------------
Lester Chew

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 02, 2024 03:37 AM
From: Anicet TAGNE
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

------------------------------
[Automic Automation Consultant]
[Paris, France]

Original Message:
Sent: Jul 31, 2024 01:38 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Hello Martin,

many thanks for the swift response and clarification. 

Just to make it crystal clear for me and as a double check I understood it right, could you confirm that activating 'the Windows beta feature' is NOT required on the V21 AE app servers, even though this is the system which will write into the new UTF-8 based database?

Many thanks in advance,

René

Hi Rene, 

I refined my previous post by the one below, I hope it answers your questions and that of the others:

We would like to apologize, this info in the user documentation is incorrect/misleading. 

The source and destination MSSQL AE DB don't have to be on a different host, but can be on different hosts.
The AE DB Migration actionpack provides an option (promptsets) to support two AE DB hosts for MSSQL.

The basic process is as follows (MSSQL):

1. You have a non-UTF-8 (V21) and create a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data loaded yet) on one or two separated DB hosts
2. You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack (mind the promptsets option for two DB hosts), the data migration is completed
3. You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the V24 AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
4. You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the V24 AE host has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host.
We recommend installing the V24 AE on a separate host than the V21 one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly on the V24 AE host with this enabled Window Beta setting.

AE DB Migration and Performance
The migration process has the biggest impact on the destination AE DB (write data), the impact on the source AE DB is lower (read data only). To lower the impact on your old V21 system to be upgraded, you can separate the source and destination AE DB on different hosts (MSSQL).

Components impacted by the Windows Beta feature
The impacted components are all V24 AE processes that access the AE DB. To lower/mitigate the impact of the old V21 system to be upgraded, installing the V24 AE on a separate host makes sense.

DB Vendor change during Migration
A change of the DB vendor during the AE DB migration process is not supported today.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, and we will also refine it with the info stated above.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 09, 2024 01:45 AM
From: Rene Kappel
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hello Martin,

just to make sure I understood correctly, let me re-phrase the information you just provided:

Given an existing environment with

• one MSSQL DB server running the V21 AE database
• one ore more AE application servers running the V21 AE binaries

the steps to upgrade to V24 are:

• setup an additional database on the already existing MSSQL DB server => most likely I'd need to double storage beforehand as the V21 database is basically duplicated - correct?
  
  
• one ALL AE application servers - but not the DB server - enable the Windows beta feature => V21 will run with the beta feature enabled! 
  Can Broadcom guarantee that V21 will operate normally (as it would without this setting) in this situation under all circumstances?
• perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack => Did you check on the potential performance impact for a busy, productive environment while the entire database is basically replicated on the same hardware?
  
  
• 'upgrade' to V24 => execute the last phase of the migration pack, exchange the binaries and restart the system - correct?

Please let me know of I understood correctly, if I missed any (important or unimportant) step AND if you - as the vendor - can guarantee that our production system will work correctly and reliably during the transition phase, given the fact that the beta feature on windows will be active while V21 is still running.

Let me add some questions at the end to help me understand the process and with the goal to minimize the impact on the production environment:

• which component exactly, requires the windows beta feature during the phase where the database is converted via copy to the second database?
• would it be possible to have this very component on a separate server and would it be sufficient to activate the beta feature only there? This way the V21 server would not need to have - a basically unsupported - beta feature enabled.
• Would Broadcom be willing to support a scenario where one would switch the database vendor during the migration? We are thinking of switching to Oracle and it would be great to save the extra copy step ....

Many Thanks in advance! 

Best Regards,

René

p.s.: Our AE database is about 1TB in size and we are running about 1 million JOBS/JOBF per day. We really need this transition to be flawless.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 08, 2024 06:18 AM
From: Martin Uferbach
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I would like to apologize, this is a wrong info in the user documentation. The source and destination DB don't have to be on a different host.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, but also some other aspects that might got mixed up and/or were unclear so far.

The basic idea is as follows (MSSQL):

• You do have a non-UTF-8 (old Automic Automation version) and a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data yet) on one DB host/server
• You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
• You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack
• You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the AE host now has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host. We recommend to not operate an AE of an older version in parallel to the V24 upgrade one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly with this enabled Window Beta setting.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 07, 2024 11:34 AM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2024 02:20 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

------------------------------
Lester Chew

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 02, 2024 03:37 AM
From: Anicet TAGNE
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

------------------------------
[Automic Automation Consultant]
[Paris, France]

Original Message:
Sent: Jul 31, 2024 01:38 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Hi Rene, 

I refined my previous post by the one below, I hope it answers your questions and that of the others:

We would like to apologize, this info in the user documentation is incorrect/misleading. 

The source and destination MSSQL AE DB don't have to be on a different host, but can be on different hosts.
The AE DB Migration actionpack provides an option (promptsets) to support two AE DB hosts for MSSQL.

The basic process is as follows (MSSQL):

1. You have a non-UTF-8 (V21) and create a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data loaded yet) on one or two separated DB hosts
2. You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack (mind the promptsets option for two DB hosts), the data migration is completed
3. You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the V24 AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
4. You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the V24 AE host has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host.
We recommend installing the V24 AE on a separate host than the V21 one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly on the V24 AE host with this enabled Window Beta setting.

AE DB Migration and Performance
The migration process has the biggest impact on the destination AE DB (write data), the impact on the source AE DB is lower (read data only). To lower the impact on your old V21 system to be upgraded, you can separate the source and destination AE DB on different hosts (MSSQL).

Components impacted by the Windows Beta feature
The impacted components are all V24 AE processes that access the AE DB. To lower/mitigate the impact of the old V21 system to be upgraded, installing the V24 AE on a separate host makes sense.

DB Vendor change during Migration
A change of the DB vendor during the AE DB migration process is not supported today.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, and we will also refine it with the info stated above.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 09, 2024 01:45 AM
From: Rene Kappel
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hello Martin,

just to make sure I understood correctly, let me re-phrase the information you just provided:

Given an existing environment with

• one MSSQL DB server running the V21 AE database
• one ore more AE application servers running the V21 AE binaries

the steps to upgrade to V24 are:

• setup an additional database on the already existing MSSQL DB server => most likely I'd need to double storage beforehand as the V21 database is basically duplicated - correct?
  
  
• one ALL AE application servers - but not the DB server - enable the Windows beta feature => V21 will run with the beta feature enabled! 
  Can Broadcom guarantee that V21 will operate normally (as it would without this setting) in this situation under all circumstances?
• perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack => Did you check on the potential performance impact for a busy, productive environment while the entire database is basically replicated on the same hardware?
  
  
• 'upgrade' to V24 => execute the last phase of the migration pack, exchange the binaries and restart the system - correct?

Please let me know of I understood correctly, if I missed any (important or unimportant) step AND if you - as the vendor - can guarantee that our production system will work correctly and reliably during the transition phase, given the fact that the beta feature on windows will be active while V21 is still running.

Let me add some questions at the end to help me understand the process and with the goal to minimize the impact on the production environment:

• which component exactly, requires the windows beta feature during the phase where the database is converted via copy to the second database?
• would it be possible to have this very component on a separate server and would it be sufficient to activate the beta feature only there? This way the V21 server would not need to have - a basically unsupported - beta feature enabled.
• Would Broadcom be willing to support a scenario where one would switch the database vendor during the migration? We are thinking of switching to Oracle and it would be great to save the extra copy step ....

Many Thanks in advance! 

Best Regards,

René

p.s.: Our AE database is about 1TB in size and we are running about 1 million JOBS/JOBF per day. We really need this transition to be flawless.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 08, 2024 06:18 AM
From: Martin Uferbach
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I would like to apologize, this is a wrong info in the user documentation. The source and destination DB don't have to be on a different host.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, but also some other aspects that might got mixed up and/or were unclear so far.

The basic idea is as follows (MSSQL):

• You do have a non-UTF-8 (old Automic Automation version) and a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data yet) on one DB host/server
• You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
• You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack
• You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the AE host now has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host. We recommend to not operate an AE of an older version in parallel to the V24 upgrade one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly with this enabled Window Beta setting.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 07, 2024 11:34 AM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2024 02:20 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

------------------------------
Lester Chew

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 02, 2024 03:37 AM
From: Anicet TAGNE
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

------------------------------
[Automic Automation Consultant]
[Paris, France]

Original Message:
Sent: Jul 31, 2024 01:38 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Hi Rene, 

I refined my previous post by the one below, I hope it answers your questions and that of the others:

We would like to apologize, this info in the user documentation is incorrect/misleading. 

The source and destination MSSQL AE DB don't have to be on a different host, but can be on different hosts.
The AE DB Migration actionpack provides an option (promptsets) to support two AE DB hosts for MSSQL.

The basic process is as follows (MSSQL):

1. You have a non-UTF-8 (V21) and create a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data loaded yet) on one or two separated DB hosts
2. You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack (mind the promptsets option for two DB hosts), the data migration is completed
3. You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the V24 AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
4. You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the V24 AE host has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host.
We recommend installing the V24 AE on a separate host than the V21 one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly on the V24 AE host with this enabled Window Beta setting.

AE DB Migration and Performance
The migration process has the biggest impact on the destination AE DB (write data), the impact on the source AE DB is lower (read data only). To lower the impact on your old V21 system to be upgraded, you can separate the source and destination AE DB on different hosts (MSSQL).

Components impacted by the Windows Beta feature
The impacted components are all V24 AE processes that access the AE DB. To lower/mitigate the impact of the old V21 system to be upgraded, installing the V24 AE on a separate host makes sense.

DB Vendor change during Migration
A change of the DB vendor during the AE DB migration process is not supported today.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, and we will also refine it with the info stated above.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 09, 2024 01:45 AM
From: Rene Kappel
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hello Martin,

just to make sure I understood correctly, let me re-phrase the information you just provided:

Given an existing environment with

• one MSSQL DB server running the V21 AE database
• one ore more AE application servers running the V21 AE binaries

the steps to upgrade to V24 are:

• setup an additional database on the already existing MSSQL DB server => most likely I'd need to double storage beforehand as the V21 database is basically duplicated - correct?
  
  
• one ALL AE application servers - but not the DB server - enable the Windows beta feature => V21 will run with the beta feature enabled! 
  Can Broadcom guarantee that V21 will operate normally (as it would without this setting) in this situation under all circumstances?
• perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack => Did you check on the potential performance impact for a busy, productive environment while the entire database is basically replicated on the same hardware?
  
  
• 'upgrade' to V24 => execute the last phase of the migration pack, exchange the binaries and restart the system - correct?

Please let me know of I understood correctly, if I missed any (important or unimportant) step AND if you - as the vendor - can guarantee that our production system will work correctly and reliably during the transition phase, given the fact that the beta feature on windows will be active while V21 is still running.

Let me add some questions at the end to help me understand the process and with the goal to minimize the impact on the production environment:

• which component exactly, requires the windows beta feature during the phase where the database is converted via copy to the second database?
• would it be possible to have this very component on a separate server and would it be sufficient to activate the beta feature only there? This way the V21 server would not need to have - a basically unsupported - beta feature enabled.
• Would Broadcom be willing to support a scenario where one would switch the database vendor during the migration? We are thinking of switching to Oracle and it would be great to save the extra copy step ....

Many Thanks in advance! 

Best Regards,

René

p.s.: Our AE database is about 1TB in size and we are running about 1 million JOBS/JOBF per day. We really need this transition to be flawless.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 08, 2024 06:18 AM
From: Martin Uferbach
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I would like to apologize, this is a wrong info in the user documentation. The source and destination DB don't have to be on a different host.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, but also some other aspects that might got mixed up and/or were unclear so far.

The basic idea is as follows (MSSQL):

• You do have a non-UTF-8 (old Automic Automation version) and a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data yet) on one DB host/server
• You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
• You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack
• You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the AE host now has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host. We recommend to not operate an AE of an older version in parallel to the V24 upgrade one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly with this enabled Window Beta setting.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 07, 2024 11:34 AM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2024 02:20 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

------------------------------
Lester Chew

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 02, 2024 03:37 AM
From: Anicet TAGNE
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

------------------------------
[Automic Automation Consultant]
[Paris, France]

Original Message:
Sent: Jul 31, 2024 01:38 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Hi Rene, 

I refined my previous post by the one below, I hope it answers your questions and that of the others:

We would like to apologize, this info in the user documentation is incorrect/misleading. 

The source and destination MSSQL AE DB don't have to be on a different host, but can be on different hosts.
The AE DB Migration actionpack provides an option (promptsets) to support two AE DB hosts for MSSQL.

The basic process is as follows (MSSQL):

1. You have a non-UTF-8 (V21) and create a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data loaded yet) on one or two separated DB hosts
2. You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack (mind the promptsets option for two DB hosts), the data migration is completed
3. You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the V24 AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
4. You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the V24 AE host has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host.
We recommend installing the V24 AE on a separate host than the V21 one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly on the V24 AE host with this enabled Window Beta setting.

AE DB Migration and Performance
The migration process has the biggest impact on the destination AE DB (write data), the impact on the source AE DB is lower (read data only). To lower the impact on your old V21 system to be upgraded, you can separate the source and destination AE DB on different hosts (MSSQL).

Components impacted by the Windows Beta feature
The impacted components are all V24 AE processes that access the AE DB. To lower/mitigate the impact of the old V21 system to be upgraded, installing the V24 AE on a separate host makes sense.

DB Vendor change during Migration
A change of the DB vendor during the AE DB migration process is not supported today.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, and we will also refine it with the info stated above.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 09, 2024 01:45 AM
From: Rene Kappel
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hello Martin,

just to make sure I understood correctly, let me re-phrase the information you just provided:

Given an existing environment with

• one MSSQL DB server running the V21 AE database
• one ore more AE application servers running the V21 AE binaries

the steps to upgrade to V24 are:

• setup an additional database on the already existing MSSQL DB server => most likely I'd need to double storage beforehand as the V21 database is basically duplicated - correct?
  
  
• one ALL AE application servers - but not the DB server - enable the Windows beta feature => V21 will run with the beta feature enabled! 
  Can Broadcom guarantee that V21 will operate normally (as it would without this setting) in this situation under all circumstances?
• perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack => Did you check on the potential performance impact for a busy, productive environment while the entire database is basically replicated on the same hardware?
  
  
• 'upgrade' to V24 => execute the last phase of the migration pack, exchange the binaries and restart the system - correct?

Please let me know of I understood correctly, if I missed any (important or unimportant) step AND if you - as the vendor - can guarantee that our production system will work correctly and reliably during the transition phase, given the fact that the beta feature on windows will be active while V21 is still running.

Let me add some questions at the end to help me understand the process and with the goal to minimize the impact on the production environment:

• which component exactly, requires the windows beta feature during the phase where the database is converted via copy to the second database?
• would it be possible to have this very component on a separate server and would it be sufficient to activate the beta feature only there? This way the V21 server would not need to have - a basically unsupported - beta feature enabled.
• Would Broadcom be willing to support a scenario where one would switch the database vendor during the migration? We are thinking of switching to Oracle and it would be great to save the extra copy step ....

Many Thanks in advance! 

Best Regards,

René

p.s.: Our AE database is about 1TB in size and we are running about 1 million JOBS/JOBF per day. We really need this transition to be flawless.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 08, 2024 06:18 AM
From: Martin Uferbach
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I would like to apologize, this is a wrong info in the user documentation. The source and destination DB don't have to be on a different host.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, but also some other aspects that might got mixed up and/or were unclear so far.

The basic idea is as follows (MSSQL):

• You do have a non-UTF-8 (old Automic Automation version) and a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data yet) on one DB host/server
• You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
• You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack
• You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the AE host now has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host. We recommend to not operate an AE of an older version in parallel to the V24 upgrade one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly with this enabled Window Beta setting.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 07, 2024 11:34 AM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2024 02:20 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

------------------------------
Lester Chew

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 02, 2024 03:37 AM
From: Anicet TAGNE
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

------------------------------
[Automic Automation Consultant]
[Paris, France]

Original Message:
Sent: Jul 31, 2024 01:38 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

In preparation of migrating to v24 eventually, we have stood up new servers in our non-production environment (v21) and currently running the old and new Windows servers in tandem.  We turned on the Beta feature for the new servers and have not noticed an impact.

We are in the process of building out the new production servers.

Just wondering if we should turn off the Beta feature on the new servers until upgrading to v24?

Hi Rene, 

I refined my previous post by the one below, I hope it answers your questions and that of the others:

We would like to apologize, this info in the user documentation is incorrect/misleading. 

The source and destination MSSQL AE DB don't have to be on a different host, but can be on different hosts.
The AE DB Migration actionpack provides an option (promptsets) to support two AE DB hosts for MSSQL.

The basic process is as follows (MSSQL):

1. You have a non-UTF-8 (V21) and create a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data loaded yet) on one or two separated DB hosts
2. You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack (mind the promptsets option for two DB hosts), the data migration is completed
3. You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the V24 AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
4. You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the V24 AE host has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host.
We recommend installing the V24 AE on a separate host than the V21 one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly on the V24 AE host with this enabled Window Beta setting.

AE DB Migration and Performance
The migration process has the biggest impact on the destination AE DB (write data), the impact on the source AE DB is lower (read data only). To lower the impact on your old V21 system to be upgraded, you can separate the source and destination AE DB on different hosts (MSSQL).

Components impacted by the Windows Beta feature
The impacted components are all V24 AE processes that access the AE DB. To lower/mitigate the impact of the old V21 system to be upgraded, installing the V24 AE on a separate host makes sense.

DB Vendor change during Migration
A change of the DB vendor during the AE DB migration process is not supported today.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, and we will also refine it with the info stated above.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 09, 2024 01:45 AM
From: Rene Kappel
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hello Martin,

just to make sure I understood correctly, let me re-phrase the information you just provided:

Given an existing environment with

• one MSSQL DB server running the V21 AE database
• one ore more AE application servers running the V21 AE binaries

the steps to upgrade to V24 are:

• setup an additional database on the already existing MSSQL DB server => most likely I'd need to double storage beforehand as the V21 database is basically duplicated - correct?
  
  
• one ALL AE application servers - but not the DB server - enable the Windows beta feature => V21 will run with the beta feature enabled! 
  Can Broadcom guarantee that V21 will operate normally (as it would without this setting) in this situation under all circumstances?
• perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack => Did you check on the potential performance impact for a busy, productive environment while the entire database is basically replicated on the same hardware?
  
  
• 'upgrade' to V24 => execute the last phase of the migration pack, exchange the binaries and restart the system - correct?

Please let me know of I understood correctly, if I missed any (important or unimportant) step AND if you - as the vendor - can guarantee that our production system will work correctly and reliably during the transition phase, given the fact that the beta feature on windows will be active while V21 is still running.

Let me add some questions at the end to help me understand the process and with the goal to minimize the impact on the production environment:

• which component exactly, requires the windows beta feature during the phase where the database is converted via copy to the second database?
• would it be possible to have this very component on a separate server and would it be sufficient to activate the beta feature only there? This way the V21 server would not need to have - a basically unsupported - beta feature enabled.
• Would Broadcom be willing to support a scenario where one would switch the database vendor during the migration? We are thinking of switching to Oracle and it would be great to save the extra copy step ....

Many Thanks in advance! 

Best Regards,

René

p.s.: Our AE database is about 1TB in size and we are running about 1 million JOBS/JOBF per day. We really need this transition to be flawless.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 08, 2024 06:18 AM
From: Martin Uferbach
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I would like to apologize, this is a wrong info in the user documentation. The source and destination DB don't have to be on a different host.

We already created a bug to get the user documentation fixed in this regard, but also some other aspects that might got mixed up and/or were unclear so far.

The basic idea is as follows (MSSQL):

• You do have a non-UTF-8 (old Automic Automation version) and a new empty AE DB (version-less as no schema/data yet) on one DB host/server
• You enable the Windows Beta feature on the host where the AE is installed to ensure UTF-8/Unicode works properly from an OS and ODBC perspective  
• You perform the migration via the AE DB migration action pack
• You perform the AE upgrade to V24

As the AE host now has to deal with the changed Windows Beta feature setting, this might have an impact on other applications running on the same host. We recommend to not operate an AE of an older version in parallel to the V24 upgrade one, and other non-Automic applications have to be checked if they still work properly with this enabled Window Beta setting.

------------------------------
Product Owner for Automic Automation
Broadcom
Austria

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 07, 2024 11:34 AM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2024 02:20 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

------------------------------
Lester Chew

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 02, 2024 03:37 AM
From: Anicet TAGNE
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

------------------------------
[Automic Automation Consultant]
[Paris, France]

Original Message:
Sent: Jul 31, 2024 01:38 PM
From: Lester Chew
Subject: V24 Upgrade of database to UTF8

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Another question.  

It was indicated that only the V24 upgrade makes use of the BETA option.  How is it that we run the migration workflow using V21 to create and populate the V24 utf-8 database later to executing the Utility DB Upgrade all using V21 and have no issues when the BETA is enabled?

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

I'm glad I brought up this topic.  I've read all of the recent responses.

I did try to create a new utf8 database on a separate database server.  While running Mode 0 migration, I ran into this error: 

2024-08-07 14:10:21             The operation could not be performed because OLE DB provider "MSOLEDBSQL" for
linked server "UC4_SOURCE" was unable to begin a distributed transaction.

I now understand the BETA feature is supposed to be enabled on the AE server.  I've executed intl.cpl on the AE servers (Windows Server 2016), Administrative/Change System locale and there is no check box for BETA.  Apparently this feature did not come with Windows Server 2016. I understand there is a registry change that can be made to enable this feature, but certainly comes with a risk if not correctly done and wonder if 2016 would recognize this registry setting.

It's clear that the DB non-utf8 and utf8 can be on the same MSSQL database server.
run the migration mode 0, 1 and 2
shutdown V21 processes
set UC4.ServiceManager to disable
Enable the BETA feature (via intl.cpl or registry change)
change ODBC data source unchecking 'Perform translation for character data' setting 
Reboot the server
Back up the V21 Utility/DB, AE, SM and SMDi directories
Upgrade the V21 directories Utility/DB, AE, SM, SMDi and AWI to version 24 (on AE server upgrade directory D:\automic to version 24

Enable UC4.ServiceManager to automatic
Start SM

If I need to backout, 

stop all AE processes
rename all directories to V24
restore V21 all AE/AWI/awi.war file and directories
restore V21 database
disable BETA
change ODBC data source checking 'Perform translation for character data' setting 
reboot server
UC4.ServiceManager starts after reboot

Does that sound right?

There is a new twist on this database migration.  In a previous post, it was stated that I need to have the utf8 database created on a separate server because the BETA setting will impact the non-utf8 databases.

That was confirmed by Broadcom.  

Yesterday, I had the DBA created a temporary server to host the utf8 database.  I deleted the Workflow as recommended by Broadcom and installed the migration pack.  After setting up the two CONN objects and tested the connection, I proceeded to execute the migration Workflow.  I started to fill out the promptset when I realized that there is only one prompt for source/destination.  Now that I am dealing with two database servers, this seems like an impossibility to do as there is not a separate prompt for source and another prompt for destination.

How is it possible to migrate the database if the promptset has only one prompt for source/destination and I'm told that the new utf8 database has to be on another server. 

I hope the person who stated that I have to have the new database on a separate server can assist me on how it was done when they performed the upgrade.

I do have a call with Broadcom later today and hopefully this will become clearer and will post an update.

Anicet,

Thanks for your input.  This subject is a bit confusing now.  I had the following reply from Broadcom regarding the other Automic database on the same DB server.  This is their response. 

.  There should not be any impact on the other database by setting the Beta setting.  That said, please doublecheck this with your system admins and DBA to confirm that they don't have any concerns on this.

Can you provide what insight you have experienced that you had that lead you to your conclusion?  I understand this is a sever wide setting for BETA.  However, the pre-utf8 Automic database are still under the original format.  The collation option has not been set to 'Latin1_General_100_CI_AS_SC_UTF8' unlike the new database.

Thanks

Hi @Lester Chew,

Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server. So to upgrade from v21 to latest v24 the new database utf8 must be on a different server. This is only for MSSQL Server.

Regards.

Anicet

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Hi all,

I was trying to follow this thread but saw something that could be still confusing.

From my understanding, the Beta-feature is needed by the AE and is not related to the DB.

Usually in a Production system you have:
 - a SERVER_AE, that needs this Beta-feature
 - and another SERVER_DB that is not affected by this (as the ODBC connection is created on SERVER_AE)

For example:

"Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server"
==> This mentions the DB server, so the Beta-feature is not enable hier. (?)

Kindly let me know if this is also how you interpret this. 

LG,
Roney

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Hi Roney,

it's also my understanding, that the computer running the AutomationEngine requires this beta feature.

The documentation (https://docs.automic.com/documentation/webhelp/english/AA/24.1/DOCU/24.1/Automic%20Automation%20Guides/Content/Installation_Common/PreparationSteps/PrepareAEDB_MSSQL.htm?tocpath=Installing%7CManual%20Installation%7CPreparing%20for%20the%20Manual%20Installation%7CPreparing%20the%20AE%20Database%7CPreparing%20the%20AE%20Database%20-%20MS%20SQL%7C_____0) mentions:

The AE using an MSSQL DB must run on a machine with the Windows Beta feature enabled.

regards,
Peter

Hi all,

I was trying to follow this thread but saw something that could be still confusing.

From my understanding, the Beta-feature is needed by the AE and is not related to the DB.

Usually in a Production system you have:
 - a SERVER_AE, that needs this Beta-feature
 - and another SERVER_DB that is not affected by this (as the ODBC connection is created on SERVER_AE)

For example:

"Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server"
==> This mentions the DB server, so the Beta-feature is not enable hier. (?)

Kindly let me know if this is also how you interpret this. 

LG,
Roney

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.

Hi all,

I was trying to follow this thread but saw something that could be still confusing.

From my understanding, the Beta-feature is needed by the AE and is not related to the DB.

Usually in a Production system you have:
 - a SERVER_AE, that needs this Beta-feature
 - and another SERVER_DB that is not affected by this (as the ODBC connection is created on SERVER_AE)

For example:

"Because of BETA check box, you cannot have both two database non UTF8 and UTF8 on the same server"
==> This mentions the DB server, so the Beta-feature is not enable hier. (?)

Kindly let me know if this is also how you interpret this. 

LG,
Roney

I am upgrading from 21.0.8 to the latest version of V24.  Automic is installed on Windows as MS SQL Server is on Windows.

I have already created the utf8 database and executed the migration using the provided Workflow, mode 0 and 1.  I later found out that I did see checking the BETA check box.  I found out that this is at the server level and not at the database level.  I have these questions.  I do have a case opened and waiting for a response.  I'm hoping someone in the community might have the answer to these questions:

1. Can I have the DBA enable BETA, reboot the server and I can continue with mode 2 or I need to drop the database, and recreate the database?  I believe that the DBA also took a backup of the empty database when BETA was not enabled.  Can I restore from the backup if one was created?  I realized that it would be empty and as I write this, I might be surprised if he did, but he could have.
2. Since the BETA impacts the database server, what impact is there to other Automic database not yet on UTF8 and other non-Automic database on the same server?

Thanks for any input.