Exporting Entire synon Model

[Anon Anon]

I have a need to send an entire synon model to a supplier to perform a proof of concept on migration to java.

Anyone know how do we go about doing this ?

[Deactivated User]

Hi Ken,

Sorry, but you've really not given anywhere near enough information for anyone to be able to answer your question with any validity.

Any answer relies entirely on what your "supplier" requires for input and what they are converting (COBOL/RPG, DDS/SQL etc. etc.).

Not sure I'm convinced that taking a 2E model to Java is a good idea, but everyone to their own :smile

Crispin.

[Anon Anon]

Hi Crispin,

Sorry if I have not provided adequate information, I had thought with synon(CA 2E) being a standard development package, and iSeries having a standard operating system that I didn't need to provide much detail.

I'm not a technical expert in synon nor the IBM iSeries, however the synon model allows the generation of either RPG or Cobol.
We exclusively use it to generate RPG talking to DB2 database. We have 4 core applications for HR payroll and a couple of smaller specialised apps some of which share a common synon model, however we have 3 active models in total that have evolved over the last 15-20 years

The "supplier" has asked us for a copy of our model in order to size the effort and costs involved and perform a proof of concept.
None of my technical staff have any idea of how to go about exporting a model from the iseries to send to a supplier.
If we engaged the suppliers product or services, the tools would be installed in our development environment and would have direct access to the iSeries models, so no need to export, but we were trying to do a proof of concept and get an early indication of effort and issues that we would likely encounter, without having the cost of bringing US based suppliers to Australia.

As you would most certainly know the Synon model contains everything necessary to generate the RPG code.
Since the supplier uses tools that take a synon model and generate the java modules, the SQL database and the screens, then it is the models and not the generated code that they would use.

Every single supplier or technical consultant that talks about application modernisation categorically advise to never try to convert the generated code, so we know that the code is of no real value in this exercise.

What further information would you need to provide advice on a possible process ?


Out of interest why would you not advise taking a 2E model to java ? Is this a concern over the target environment or on the process of migrating ?

Thanks in advance
Ken

[Deactivated User]

Hi Ken,

Sure, the 2E tooling is standard, that's pretty straightforward, but you gave absolutely no information about what your supplier was going to do or wanted. There was nothing to go on. A bit like me asking you to give me directions to my granny's place. No help if you don't know her, right, or what mode of transport I can use.

Anyway, if your supplier is asking for the model, then I can assume that they have 2E licenses, IBM i's and are used to this sort of thing.

Simply, all you'll need to do is save the model library to whatever media you have and mailing it to them. SAVLIB to tape of the 3 models sounds like all they require.

Have they not given you any indication of what they actually want? (and if they have not, are you sure you want to partner with them?) An "export of the model", even with the additional information you have provided, is really not much to go on.

Re:Java migration, I am assuming (which is probably not a good idea) that you're going to take all your business rules and data access to Java. I don't think you're going to find it matches what you currently have for reliability, scalability, performance. But, it's really difficult to give a real good opinion as I have absolutely no idea of what direction you're heading.

Lastly, in asking the questions I did, I was only trying to get an understanding of what this "export" was meant to be. There's plenty of options which are all highly dependent on what your specific supplier does for a process. Hawkbridge (Darryl Milington) worked on the XML Export which is used by CMFirst for their 2E to Plex migration, which is in my opinion probably a better route. Then there is Databorough's 2E to Java offering (which frankly sounds like you're using, but I could be wrong).

Crispin.

[Anon Anon]

Hi Crispin,

You've identified pretty much the same approaches that I have, we have not decided on any as yet

- Databorough for analysis of the model and the implemented business rules for the functionality that we need to re-platform (so we can asssess re-write)
- Databorough for 2E to Java and non synon RPG to java
- Hawkbridge or CMfirst for 2E to Plex (is Darrly still with Hawkbridge - as both are Australia based which is a plus for us)
- Blue Phoenix was the supplier that asked for the model, but when pressed for more details they were less responsive, and have now come back (overnight) and advised that they do not want the business

We are purely at an evaluation of options stage, but wanted to do a test migration, as we have a model that is for a much smaller chunk of required functionality, so were using any POC and interaction with suppliers as an early indication of performance and capability

We have a huge DB2 databasse with years of service, payroll and leave history for 150,000+ permanent and casual employees so our main concern is the database performance.
We don't necessarilly have to take all this data to Oracle, but when we decommission the iSeries we do need to still be able to access data for historical purposes, so it may be advantageous in some ways to take the whole DB2 database across

The functional areas that we are planning to migrate are either not processor intense or are background data crunching that may well be converted to more efficient language than Java.

Given that we have 120,000+ employees, then we also have a large IT depatment, which is very departmentalised. Our HR payroll application support team is only 1 part of the group and approaches for the re-platforming needs to be endorsed by Enterprise Architecture, Infrastructure, the OS teams, as well as the individual; project steering committees, so we are a fair way off making any decisions

regards
ken

[Legacy User]

Hi Ken,

I have read your post few weeks ago and took some time to think about the scope of work you have to do. Some words about Darryl - I think he is still with Hawkbridge, so this might be a good choice for starting. There is one point, I totally agree with Crispin - If you migrate your applications to Java, please keep in mind, that this is purely native programming. And if you have ever developed applications with tools like CA 2E or CA Plex, you will know what I mean.

So, I would recommend you to get really clear of your goals and then decide what fits best to your users needs and requirements. Our company has developed a tool that assists a programmer in using CA Plex as the platform to build your applications. Tools4Plex is able to speed up development performance immense. And we are able to import existing information into a Plex Model, from a various number of sources, including CA 2E. As one of few presentation layers, we use PlexXML web framework to build flexible web applications with iSeries DB2, MS SQL Server, MySQL or Oracle as the DB-Layer. They can also co-exist with your present CA 2E programs, so that you will be able to have a partly migration, where you only migrate the user interface, for example.  With Tools4Plex, we are able to generate all the definition files necessary for PlexXML automatically. Modernizing your DB2 database to become DDL defined is another feature.

If you are interested in some more information, you can download the presentations I held at the CA Plex/2E user conference in Islandia, N.Y. this November. You can find the files here. I would prefer the .pptx-files, because there are a lot of hidden sides that are not shown in a .pdf-file. Don't hesitate to contact me, if you have any further questions.

It's also possible for us to migrate a smaller model for you, as kind of a POC, if you are able to send us all the Y-files that are inside your Synon (CA 2E) model library as .xls or .xlsx files, exported from the iSeries with Excel 2010 or 2012.

Regards,

Axel