Unable to run flight simulator program.

[jrev]

With help of most of the tech staff in our local Apple store we were eventually able to figure out how to install Fusion but it refuses to run my flight simulator program. Gives message indicating ATI graphics driver is not present. Nobody at Apple store knows what to do and VM tech support is worthless.

Any ideas?

[Dave_Mishchenko]

Your question has been moved to the Fusion forum - http://communities.vmware.com/community/vmtn/desktop/fusion. Please see the document here regarding useful information to include in your post.

Dave Mishchenko

VMware Communities User Moderator

[jrev]

Thanks for responding. I haven't a clue what you mean when you say "Please see the document ""here"" regarding useful information to include in your post". What do you mean by "here"? I followed the link you provided and it certainly didn't take me to any information regarding "useful information to in your post". This system is most bizzare. If I understand the prompts correctly, it asks me to indicate whether the response(s) received are either "correct" or "helpful", I presume the perpetrators of this great software hoax don't want to hear about it if the response(s) received are neither correct nor helpful. VMware appears to be a fraud. I'm glad I don't own stock in the company. If they can't do better than this for support I'm soon not even going to be an owner of their software; I'm taking it back for a refund before they have an opportunity to file for bankruptcy protection.

[rcardona2k]

(Not speaking for Dave, just trying to help).

Dave is a moderator and he found your posting in a place in the online forums where it might not get the proper attention, so he did you a favor by moving your query to the VMware Fusion forum. The whereabouts of "here" is now the VMware Fusion forum where there is a document entitled: that describes specific information that helps VMware and others narrow the possible solutions to your issues.

These forums are a customized derivative template of "Community Forums" which include standard buttons ("helpful" etal) in the chance someone is actually helpful to you. If someone is not helpful, there is no de-merit system except by written word. Based on your prognostication of the future value of VMware, I would say you have grasped that concept.

Happy Holidays.

[jrev]

Again I thank you for your (extremely rapid) response. I apologize to Dave, et. al. for seeming perhaps ungrateful. Not being knowledgeable about technical computer/software subjects, it hasn't been obvious to me that this forum isn't or wasn't an official element of VMware's web site. I was unable to read the directory of forums and find a category into which my problem fits so I sincerely appreciate that help.

I'd hoped that someone or some software company had developed software which would actually enable one to run Windows programs from within the Mac OS. Evidently that has only happened within a limited context to date. Guess I'll have to wait for Apple to "do it right".

Thanks again for your rapid and polite responses. I sincerely appreciate them.

[rcardona2k]

Does your game require the ATI driver? Because VMware emulates their own video card regardless of what's in your Mac. They have to do this for a number of reasons. You can however add features like 3D acceleration (under Virtual Machine > Settings > Display - while the VM is powered off).

For a definitive guide of what is supported under VMware's emulated graphics please refer to

The guide is needed since VMware provides virtual DirectX 9.0 (not, e.g. 9.0c) support without shaders. Games compatible with stock DX 9.0 should work provided they don't need some specific mode not enabled by VMware.

[jrev]

Thanks for responding. I haven't a clue whether my program requires a ATI driver. I don't even know (or care) what a ATI driver is. All I know is that my flight training program runs using Bootcamp, which is extremely inconvenient to use, but refuses to run at all using Fusion. I'm not a computer technician and I have no interest in becoming one. I bought VM Fusion because it was advertised as something which would permit me to run Windows programs in parallel with OSX. None of the "experts" at the Apple stores have a clue how to fix this problem so there's little chance that I'm going to figure it out unless VMware decides to start providing technical support, which as far as I can tell, it does not do. I believe the kind of misrepresentation in which VMware is engaging is generally referred to as FRAUD! The installation instructions aren't even adequate to permit a non-technician to install the program. It took half a dozen Apple store personnel to figure out how to install the program which, once installed, doesn't work.

Thanks again for responding but my problem remains. I guess we Apple users are going to have to wait for the Apple organization to develop the software needed to run Windows programs more effectively than the existing Bootcamp option. Looks like its REFUND TIME.

Thanks again.

[rcardona2k]

RE: Fraud

I disagree with your opinion but I respect your disappointment. Perhaps there should be a disclaimer on the box that 3D games can be a troublesome category for VMware to handle properly, i.e. side-by-side with OS X.

You're entitled to a refund and enjoy your FlightSim in Boot Camp.

Happy Holidays

[jrev]

Indeed a disclaimer would have saved me and a considerable number of other very busy people several hours of wasted time, time which I really couldn't afford to waste.

Again I thank you and the others here for your time and trouble. I believe you have probably succeeded in minimizing the amount of additional time which will need to be wasted disposing of this issue. For that I am very grateful.

[Dave_Mishchenko]

Hi there, sorry for missing the link after "Please see the document ""here". It may still be possible to get FS running in a VM on Fusion, so if you're willing there are a number of people here who could give you a hand. It may be something in the setup of the VM (like VM tools missing).

[jrev]

Dave,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm all ears. Willing to give anything a try before giving up. I did find some sort of technical note on the VM web site yesterday referring to graphics difficulties (might have difficulty finding it again) which seemed to imply that I should try reinstalling VM tools and upon doing so, to select a "repair" option in the menu that appeared. I did in fact attempt to execute the VM tools installation command but nothing happened; no "repair" option or anything, the screen just "sat" there. The folks at the Apple store did perform the VM tools installation, reboot, etc. but it didn't seem to make the right things happen when it came to trying to run the program.

For what it's worth, the following advice regarding video/graphics appears on the packing for the simulator software I'm attempting to run:

The program is called FS One, it's a model airplane and helicopter training/simulation program developed for a company called Hanger 9 (specifically for model airplanes and helicopters which they sell) by another company called InertiaSoft.

Minimum: NVIDIA or ATI graphics card w 64 MB VRAM

NVIDIA: GeForce4 Ti, GeForce 5000-series (5200 or better)

ATI: Radeon 9000-seriex (9200 or better)

Recommended: NVIDIA or ATE graphics card w at least 128 MB VRAM

NVIDIA: GeForce 6000-series or 7000-series (6600 or better)

ATI: Radeon X-series (X600 or better)

I'm running OSX version 10.4.11 (latest available as far as I know without upgrading to the new 10.5 OSX) on a MacBook Pro and Windows XP on the bootcamp partition.

Most of this is Greek to me but I would be grateful for any suggestions that might enable me to get this software running. I purchased Parallels today figuring that I'd never get going w Fusion. Would love to be proven wrong (it wouldn't be the first time)!

Thanks,

John Reves - Saline, MI

PS - I should add that this program does run reasonably well in Bootcamp; I'm just trying to eliminate the need to reboot every time I want to run this program. If I can get Fusion to work, there are some similar programs which I'd like to try running.

[Dave_Mishchenko]

Hi John, the info posted certainly helps. Let me first say that I don't use Fusion but I use other VMware products and I don't think your issue is related to the fact that you're using Fusion. The folks on this forum will correct me if I get any of the Fusion specific details wrong. Unfortunately, I don't think Parallels is going to help because it runs pretty much the same as Fusion.

Now if I can start with the basics, when you use bootcamp and start up Windows XP, XP is able to see and use the exact hardware that you have. Depending on your model of Macbook Pro, you'll have an ATI or NVIDIA graphics card (I'm using this as a reference - http://support.apple.com/specs/macbookpro/) with either 128 MB or 256 MB of video memory. When you run FS One, the application is able to see via Windows XP which graphics card you have. I would suspect, that FS One would not run if you don't have a video card that you have listed from the system requirements, but Hanger 9 should be able to give you a definitive answer on that.

The problem you're having (and will also likely have with Parallels) is that the Virtual Machine that is created to allow Windows to run at the same time as OSX, is not able to see the specific that your Macbook Pro has. Usually the "hard drive" that Windows will see is only a file on your OSX install, the virtual Windows has no idea of how much memory the Macbook Pro has. Similarly, the video card that Windows XP sees is a pretty basic card and is branded VMware. Windows running on Fusion will only see a pretty basic SVGA controller and not the specific high performance video card that the Macbook actually has. Hence you're generating an error about the ATI driver. With Paralells you also get a basic VGA / SVGA video card in the virtual machine (VM).

One thing you could try is to increase the amount of video memory that the virtual machine will have. You'll have to close Fusion and then edit the VMX file for your Windows VM. See this knowledge based article for the parameter to change - http://kb.vmware.com/kb/1001876 (I'm getting a bit better including all the links so far).

What you would want is something that takes Windows out of the picture completely and allow the application to run on OSX without needing Windows XP. I found this http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/ (haven't used it but they do have a free trial). If you look at the page there is a YouTube video that somewhat describes your situation. Now the game used in the example does not require a specific graphics card, but you might get further with it that with either Fusion or Parallels. It might also be worth asking Hanger 9 support if you can run the simulator on a PC without the listed graphics cards that the minimum / recommended specs mention.

[admin]

Ah, finally some details! Dumb question: Do you have 3D acceleration enabled under Virtual Machine > Settings (you can only change this while the virtual machine is off)? Are you running Fusion 1.1 or 1.0? What is your basis for saying that support is useless (e.g. what method did you try to use to get support)?

Dave: Companies usually post specific graphics cards because they think it's easier for consumers to say "oh, I've got something newer than a nATI 1734" rather than checking to see if their card supports DirectX Y.z. I doubt they're specifically checking for the cards listed, but rather saying that those cards meet the minimum requirements. Unfortunately, it's not very helpful to figure out what the requirements actually are - if the OP is going to try asking Hanger 9 about this, I would suggest asking about the level of DirectX support and video RAM needed.

Richard: While is a list of apps people have run successfully, it is not (and probably never will be) comprehensive. Presence or absence of an app also does not imply support.

[jrev]

Hi etung,

My characterization of VM support is based the fact that I seem to be unable to receive or find any form of support from VM other than via subscribing to one of their support options at additional cost, which I am unwilling to do after purchasing the program. Their web site claims 30 days of email support which, unsatisfactory as that would be, doesn't seem to exist as far as I've been able to tell. I haven't found a way to communicate with them via their web site or email. Attempts to contact by telephone lead to the proverbial dead end.

I've looked around but don't seem to find any clues about how to enable 3D acceleration with vm on or off. Perhaps you can advise on this. I'm running Fusion 1.1 - upgraded to it in the Apple store after installing 1.0 from the disk. I'm in the process of contacting FSOne support and will inquire about level of DirectX support and video Ram per your suggestion.

Thanks very much for your time and effort on this.

John

[jrev]

I spoke with the FSOne support staff on the phone today. They weren't able to give me any more information about video requirements that what is printed on the box. The person I spoke with said a GeForce 7600 video card w 4 G memory was "about the minimum for getting "" good"" performance". And the usual "we don't support Mac's, the program was developed for PC's". I only have 2 G of RAM on my machine but it sees adequate when running the program in Bootcamp.

[admin]

Their web site claims 30 days of email support which, unsatisfactory as that would be, doesn't seem to exist as far as I've been able to tell. I haven't found a way to communicate with them via their web site or email. Attempts to contact by telephone lead to the proverbial dead end.

I believe the way it's supposed to work is that you log into your VMware store account, and there should be a link to submitting a support request. There is no telephone support.

I've looked around but don't seem to find any clues about how to enable 3D acceleration with vm on or off.

Power the guest off. Go to Virtual Machine > Settings > Display and check the "Enable 3D graphics" option.

[jrev]

I think I tried the account log on route and only got directed to search through their list of prior problems; never seemed to be able to get to a screen which would permit me to ask a question. I'll have another look.

I see what you mean about 3D graphics. Yes, that has been enabled from the beginning but doesn't seem to make a difference.

For what it's worth, here's the exact error message I'm getting, verbatim:

WARNING

The ATI Control Panel failed to initialize because no ATI driver is installed, or ATI driver is not working properly. The ATI Control Panel will now exit.

Thanks for the tips; I'll continue to work on it. Will try again to see if I can find a way to communicate w VM.

[Dave_Mishchenko]

When you created the virtual machine, did you use the option to a virtual machine from the boot camp partition? (see page 15 here - ). If so then the error makes sense and you can ignore it. When you install ATI graphic drivers on Windows XP, the installer adds an application that starts automatically when you login to the install. It runs in the system tray and allows you to manage your graphic card settings. When you boot XP from boot camp, the app will run fine because the OS is able to see the graphics card. When you boot from within Fusion, as mentioned above, the virtual machine sees only a VMware graphics card and not the physical hardware of your Macbook Pro. Thus the error comes up because the ATI drivers on the system can't start because the ATI card is not there.

Are you able to start FS One after you click Ok on the error message?

[admin]

For what it's worth, here's the exact error message I'm getting, verbatim:

WARNING

The ATI Control Panel failed to initialize because no ATI driver is installed, or ATI driver is not working properly. The ATI Control Panel will now exit.

Exact error messages always help. What's happening is that virtual hardware looks different from physical hardware (for a bunch of reasons), and the ATI driver is noticing that it can't talk to any ATI hardware. You're seeing this message before the simulator even starts, right? You can ignore this message, it is almost certainly not related to the flight simulator not running.

[jrev]

Correct. I get the error message before the simulator starts. Dave, no the simulator doesn't start after I acknowledge the message by hitting the "ok" button.

I didn't get a chance today to approach the Apple support plan to which I have a subscription but I'm guessing they aren't going to be able to offer much help. Never know. I will call them. Don't know if they're working tomorrow but will do it at first opportunity.

You fellows are way over my head on the details here. I'm not sure if what's happening means there needs to be ATI card emulation code in the virtual system somewhere or whether there is some way to get it to look for and accept something other than ATI.

I'll also try again to get through to someone at VM. Thanks for all your kind expert advice. I'll stay tuned while I explore all the options.

John

[HobbitFootAussi]

From the info provided, its pretty much certain that your specific piece of software will not run in Fusion. Its possible it may run in Parallels 3 with its slightly better 3d graphics support, but it probably will not run well if it does.

This is exactly the sort of application that you should run via Bootcamp and not via a virtualization software.

[jrev]

Dave,

Thanks for those ideas. I downloaded a trial copy of the Codeweaver Crossover program and tried it. I didn't have any problem installing the flight simulator program on the OSX disk with it but I seem to be unable to run the program because the program cannot "see" the USB port(s) which the aircraft controller is plugged into. Similar to problems I had with the old VirtualPC program on my old G4 Powerbook.

I will try to speak with the AppleCare people today as well as the FSOne people to see if they have any thoughts. Will let you know if I learn anything helpful.

John