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Basic XP Backup Image Capture

  • 1.  Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 15, 2011 06:44 PM

    I have DS 7.1 running in an isolated domain in a VMWare Workstation environment. I'm sending a basic job that only attempts to create a backup image (using ghost) of a Windows XP image.

    After the machine successfully boots into automation, all the drivers are loaded and the machine justs sits at the automation window for some time before sending an error back to the console.

    The logs indicate an error trying to grab credentials prior to attempting to map to the deployment share.

    ...

     [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@696 GetSharePointPath()
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@710 Input @serverName=MARIA-CMS.mariadev.com
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@727 Input @authenticationPoint=\Deployment
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@738 Server and share=\\MARIA-CMS.mariadev.com\Deployment
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@793 MapDrive()
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 0] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp:803  Calling Command to get N/W Credentials
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 1] FacadeStrategy::Command() called.
    [2011/06/15 14:43:49.140 1944:1184 2] Command to get N/W Credentials failed.
    [2011/06/15 14:43:49.140 1944:1184 0] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@188 Command  to get N/W Credentials failed value=0, error=0
    [2011/06/15 14:43:49.140 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@895 Output @errorMessage=Command  to get N/W Credentials failed value=0, error=0
    [2011/06/15 14:43:49.140 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@904 Imaging completed. Failure return!! 

    I have tried resetting the App Identity just to ensure that the stored credentials didn't get corrupt but still having problems. Does anybody have any suggestions?



  • 2.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 16, 2011 12:43 AM

    the problem is not with DS. Windows Xp network drivers are missing in Windows PE environment when you are using vmware.

    pl. refer artcile https://www-secure.symantec.com/connect/blogs/tweaking-vmware-work-winpe-2x-and-microsoft-vista for more information.



  • 3.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 16, 2011 01:23 PM

    The error log indicates there is communication with NS, I dont think the driver is the issue. 

    It failed because it was not able to authenticate back to the share point.

     

    [2011/06/15 14:43:49.140 1944:1184 2] Command to get N/W Credentials failed.

    it seems to be a credentials issue? post the whole log file and I might be able to see what the problem is.

    Nelo



  • 4.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 16, 2011 02:42 PM

    [2011/06/15 14:43:27.484 1944:1184 2] Log File Created. Version 7.01.1374
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.484 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\DeploymentSolutionAgent\DeploymentSolutionAgent_Task.cpp@83::Run()
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.484 1944:1184 2] t3.cpp@46::Run()
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.484 1944:1184 2] t3.cpp@50 Load ClientCaptureImage.dll ep ClientCaptureImage
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.484 1944:1184 2] t3.cpp:69 found Task Handler dll @ x:\program files\altiris\altiris agent\agents\agent tasks\DeploymentSolutionAgent.dll
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.484 1944:1184 2] t3.cpp@146 x:\program files\altiris\altiris agent\agents\agent tasks\ClientCaptureImage.dll File Found
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@100::Run()
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] We are in automation.
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@141 (null)
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@158 Process imaging XML
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@249::ClientCaptureImage()
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@274 <useHTTP>=False
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@285 Output @isHTTP=False
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@292 <imageTool>=@imageTool
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@305 Input @imageTool=1
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@316 Output @imageTool=1
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@323 <imageType>=0
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@347 Output @imageType=0
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@354<imageLocation>=
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@369 Input @imagePath=\\MARIA-CMS.mariadev.com\Deployment\Task Handler\image\2893afc4-a6c0-456d-b0ec-8ce54bd36a59
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@382 <imageName>=Backup XP Image.gho
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@386 Output @imageName=Backup XP Image.gho
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@393 <description>=
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@397 Output @description=
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@408 <imagingCommandLine>=  -z2 -split=200  -batch -sure -clone,MODE=create,SRC=1,DST=@fullImagePath
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@422 Input @OSType=Windows XP
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@439 Output @OSType=Windows XP
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.500 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@447 Input Parameter @resourceGuid=
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@449 Setting Outper Parameter @resourceGuid
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@162 Calling RunImagingTools
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@503 Input @imageToolPath=\Task Handler\ghost\
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@520 Input @NUKEGuid=\Task Handler\ghost\
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@923 GetFullImagePath()
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@941 Input @fullImagePath=\\MARIA-CMS.mariadev.com\Deployment\Task Handler\image\2893afc4-a6c0-456d-b0ec-8ce54bd36a59\Backup XP Image.gho
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@945 Output @imagePath=\\MARIA-CMS.mariadev.com\Deployment\Task Handler\image\2893afc4-a6c0-456d-b0ec-8ce54bd36a59\Backup XP Image.gho
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@954 Found @ServerName - value = MARIA-CMS.mariadev.com
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@965 @SSName not found, continuing.
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@696 GetSharePointPath()
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@710 Input @serverName=MARIA-CMS.mariadev.com
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@727 Input @authenticationPoint=\Deployment
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@738 Server and share=\\MARIA-CMS.mariadev.com\Deployment
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@793 MapDrive()
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 0] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp:803  Calling Command to get N/W Credentials
    [2011/06/15 14:43:48.515 1944:1184 1] FacadeStrategy::Command() called.
    [2011/06/15 14:43:49.140 1944:1184 2] Command to get N/W Credentials failed.
    [2011/06/15 14:43:49.140 1944:1184 0] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@188 Command  to get N/W Credentials failed value=0, error=0
    [2011/06/15 14:43:49.140 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@895 Output @errorMessage=Command  to get N/W Credentials failed value=0, error=0
    [2011/06/15 14:43:49.140 1944:1184 2] apps\DeploymentClient\ClientCaptureImage\Tcube_ClientCaptureImage.cpp@904 Imaging completed. Failure return!!



  • 5.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 16, 2011 02:48 PM

    I applied this fix last week and it did fix a different problem where the DHCP Server was not able to be found.



  • 6.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 16, 2011 04:43 PM

    The only issue I see is with credentials trying to map a drive. anything unusual about it?



  • 7.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 16, 2011 06:05 PM

    There is nothing unusual about the username and password. It is mariadev\administrator, the domain administrator. I can try creating a new account and changing it just to see if that works.

    I've noticed that in other posts, their logs only show short server names, not fqdn like my logs show. While in the preboot environment, I cannot ping my cms server by fqdn, only short name.



  • 8.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 16, 2011 06:11 PM

    then look at x:\program files\altiris\altiris agent\pectagent.ini open the file using notepad.  notepad pectagent.ini

    does it show the fqdn? or the short name?  it might have the fqdn change it to the short one. Kill the PECTAgent.exe via taskmgr and execute PECTagent.exe see it that works for u.



  • 9.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 17, 2011 03:07 PM

    PECTagent.ini:

    [NotificationServer]
    name=MARIA-CMS
    [PortNumber]
    port=80
    [Communication]
    protocol=http

    PECTagent.log


    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='1948' tickCount='68828' >
      <![CDATA[CTAgent::Start(): Starting Client Task Agent.]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='652' tickCount='68828' >
      <![CDATA[Client Task Agent is initializing]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='1948' tickCount='68843' >
      <![CDATA[CTAgent::StartAgent(): The client task agent is not initialized. Waiting for initialization to complete.]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='652' tickCount='68843' >
      <![CDATA[CTaskAgentBase::ProcessNewSettings(): Processing new settings: update: 1, task send: 10, server method: 1]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='656' tickCount='68859' >
      <![CDATA[CTaskAgentBase::ProcessTasksThreadProcExtern()]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='668' tickCount='68859' >
      <![CDATA[CTaskExecutionEngineWin32::OnInitThread(): Engine initializing]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='656' tickCount='68859' >
      <![CDATA[CTaskServerNetCommsConnection::GetServersAndRegister(): Not getting new server list because we have MARIA-CMS saved]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='656' tickCount='68859' >
      <![CDATA[CTaskServerNetCommsConnection::RegisterWithServerList(): Register order: MARIA-CMS]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='656' tickCount='68859' >
      <![CDATA[Attempting to register using "http://MARIA-CMS:80/Altiris/ClientTaskServer/Register.aspx?resourceGuid=a5fc68e5-c844-4b79-b4cd-98a73c41efb1"]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='652' tickCount='68875' >
      <![CDATA[CTaskExecutionEngineWin32::StartEngine(): Task execution engine start requested]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='1948' tickCount='68875' >
      <![CDATA[CTAgent::StartAgent(): The client task agent has initialized.]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='1948' tickCount='68875' >
      <![CDATA[CTAgent::Start(): Done.]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='940' tickCount='68875' >
      <![CDATA[CWin32CTServerDirectConnection::OnExecute(): Tickle thread starting...]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='SimpleThread' module='AeXNetComms.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='640' tickCount='68875' >
      <![CDATA[Network Monitor Thread thread 0x280 beginning]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:44' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='NetworkMonitor' module='AeXNetComms.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='640' tickCount='68890' >
      <![CDATA[Network connection made: LAN]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:45' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='656' tickCount='69875' >
      <![CDATA[CTaskAgentBase::OnAgentRegistered(): Successfully registered with server "MARIA-CMS"]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 11:59:46' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='940' tickCount='70875' >
      <![CDATA[CWin32CTServerDirectConnection::Connect(): Tickle connection to server MARIA-CMS:50124]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 12:00:07' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='940' tickCount='91875' >
      <![CDATA[CWin32CTServerDirectConnection.ProcessDisconnected():  Failed to connect.  Waiting 5 minutes to retry]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 12:00:45' severity='2' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='656' tickCount='129875' >
      <![CDATA[m_client->get_MaintenanceWindows return error -2147467263]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 12:00:47' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='672' tickCount='131906' >
      <![CDATA[Task: Create Backup Image has started]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 12:01:08' severity='1' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='PCTTask' module='ClientCaptureImage.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='1760' tickCount='153578' >
      <![CDATA[Command  to get N/W Credentials failed.]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 12:01:08' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='672' tickCount='153578' >
      <![CDATA[CTaskStatusEngine::OnTaskFinished(): Got status for f677af55-da2b-4df8-b130-605c94afacbe]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 12:01:08' severity='4' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='672' tickCount='153578' >
      <![CDATA[Task: Create Backup Image has finished]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 12:01:16' severity='2' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='656' tickCount='160890' >
      <![CDATA[m_client->get_MaintenanceWindows return error -2147467263]]>
    </event>
    <event date='Jun 17 12:02:17' severity='2' hostName='MININT-0FU70KB' source='Client Task Agent' module='Client Task Agent.dll' process='PECTAgent.exe' pid='1944' thread='656' tickCount='221890' >
      <![CDATA[m_client->get_MaintenanceWindows return error -2147467263]]>
    </event>



  • 10.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 20, 2011 05:51 PM

    something is wrong with credentials.  On the NS machine can you access \\localhost\deployment ?

    the DS share point needs to have read\write access.



  • 11.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 20, 2011 09:33 PM

    Yes, I can access \\localhost\deployment from the NS machine. I even gave Everyone Full rights to that share. Still didn't help.

    What do you think of the error message 'Command  to get N/W Credentials failed'? Is the client trying to get the encrypted username and password of the App Identity account from the registry on the NS?



  • 12.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 20, 2011 10:15 PM

    Yes.  are u using the app identity setting? it could be it cannot get all the information that it needs.



  • 13.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 21, 2011 01:22 AM

    I've noticed that in other posts, their logs only show short server names, not fqdn like my logs show. While in the preboot environment, I cannot ping my cms server by fqdn, only short name.

    try adding an entry in Win PE Windows hosts file x:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts for fqdn name.

    you should be able to ping server with both fqdn and short name.



  • 14.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture

    Posted Jun 21, 2011 02:40 PM

    Yes, I have the App Identity set in Settings->All Settings->Notification Server->Notification Server Settings.

    I also checked the registry to ensure that the user and pwd values are set in HKLM\Software\eXpress\Notification Server\AppIdentity key.



  • 15.  RE: Basic XP Backup Image Capture
    Best Answer

    Posted Jun 23, 2011 08:05 PM

    The culprit was a nasty little intrusion protection software. When I created the original Windows Server 2008 VM, the host was joined to our production domain. This is where it picked up the intrusion protection software. After I moved the host to a development domain, I used the  same VMs and just fired them up not realizing that the nasty software hitched a ride.

    Rebuilding the Windows Server 2008 VM from scratch did the trick. Thank you to all who contributed and tried so hard to help me find a solution. I appreciate the responsiveness of the attendees of this forum!