2013 VM Ware - Need Help Moving to New Machine

[SCOTT WILLIAMS]

Hi - 

We have our LaserFiche installed on a VMWare that was set up in 2005 and I think was last updated approx. 2013.   The PC that it's hosted on is ancient and I'd like to move the VM Ware to a windows 11 machine. 

What is best way to do this? Are there any recommended vendors who might be able to provide this service? 

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you!

[Technogeezer]

One way to do this is:

• Shut down the virtual machine on the old host system. Don’t suspend it, shut it down.
• Make a copy of this VM to another folder/drive to preserve its current state on the old host system.
• Remove any snapshots that exist in the VM.
• Shut down Workstation.
• Get an external USB drive that’s large enough to comfortably hold the VM. I’d personally use a hard drive formatted as NTFS.
• Copy the folder containing all the VM’s files to the USB drive.
• Install Workstation 17.6.4 on your new Windows PC.
• Attach the USB drive to the new PC.
• Copy the VM’s folder to the new PC’s hard drive.
• Open Workstation on the new PC, and open the copied VM.
• If prompted to upgrade the VM’s virtual hardware, don’t upgrade.
• If prompted about whether you moved or copied the VM, answer that you moved it.

If you’re running a Windows VM, there is a possibility that the change in physical CPUs (due to your new PC probably having a more modern CPU) may require re-activation of Windows in the VM. 

[RaSystemlord]

As a discussion to Technogeezer:

1.
Has something changed with VMware since answering "I Moved It" never worked between different architectures? I mean, there is a 100% chance of the architecture being different with "an ancient PC" and Win 11 PC.

In the steps above, you do have a fresh backup of the VM and thus answer "I Moved It" does no harm - except that it might not work at all.

2.
New activation means that you need to buy new Windows OS and new Office - I mean licenses. Since your system is antique - there may be some difficulties in getting new versions.

3.
Is VMware 17.6 really running VMs from 2005 without any Upgrades from 2005->some old year AND some old year->17.6 ?

4.
Asking to do all of the above by Service, might be a good idea if the above does not work without problems.

[SCOTT WILLIAMS]

I will try this ASAP - thank you!

(and, yes, the same VMWare that was installed so many years ago is still working and running our legacy imaging system!)

[Technogeezer]

@RaSystemlord

From my understanding, the moved/copied question impacts the BIOS UUID and MAC addresses of the VM. The detected CPU architecture is independent of those. The guest will see a new CPU model reflecting the hosts’s CPU.

This detected CPU could cause an issue for the VM depending on the guest OS type and age. For example, it’s known that Windows 95 and I believe 98 need OS patches to run on newer Intel processors.

Re-activation of Windows may not need a new purchase depending on the version of a windows and the type of license purchased. As an example, retail Windows licenses can be transferred from one system to another. System builder and OEM licenses are tied to the system they were opinstalled on and can’t be transferred (at least very easily).

Workstation 17 can run virtual hardware versions from older versions of the product. A quick check of Workstation 17.6.4 shows virtual hardware compatibility back to Workstation 5.x.  Not upgrading the virtual hardware version of a VM moved from an older Workstation version reduces the possibility of the latest virtual hardware causinng a compatibility problem with the older operating system. You can experiment with upgrading the virtual hardware after the migration.

@SCOTT WILLIAMS can you give us some more information about the old environment you are running? Things such as the current PC’s CPU model, VMware version, and the operating system type and version that ypu’re running in the VM?

[SCOTT WILLIAMS]

Thank you so much for taking time for this and for your assistance!!!

I'm installing the 17.6.4 on my machine and will try your suggestion ASAP and see how it goes. 

FWIW, the old machine that is hosting VM currently is a windows 7 Pro w/ xeoncupu 3.2ghz, 8G ram

the VM machine is windows 7 enterprise w/ same specs listed.

I'll keep you posted on progress (hopefully).

[SCOTT WILLIAMS]

So...this worked!   I was able to open the old virtual server using the version 17.6.4 on a different machine!!!!  Thank you!

This is really for legacy, record keeping, but if this virtual machine is on a newer computer, can/should I try to upgrade the windows version?  If this is on my windows 11 machine behind firewall, is there a security risk in keeping it Windows 7?

Very happy this worked...really appreciate the help!

[Technogeezer]

Glad that things worked out for you.

My opinion follows on your questions about continuing to run Windows 7 and whether to upgrade or not.

Windows 7 is unsupported and has not received any updates (including security updates) since 2020. That makes it very risky to run it if it's connected to any network. If it's absolutely necessary to run it. I would consider running a Windows 7 VM with its virtual network disconnected. If you need to run it on a network, you should keep it as isolated as you can and never configure it to connect to the Internet.

As far as upgrading that virtual machine, there are many things to consider:

• Whether your software will run on Windows 11
• How to upgrade Windows 7 to Windows 11. Windows 7 is likely installed on a disk with MBR ("MS DOS partitioning style") formatting and BIOS firmware, and Windows 11 needs a GPT formatted disk and UEFI firmware. 
• Windows 11 has additional hardware requirements such as a 64GB minimum disk size, 4GB RAM, Secure Boot and a Trusted Platform Module device. All of these are available from Workstation for VMs, but you'll have to figure out how and when during the upgrade process to enable them.

All of these will take research to see how viable the upgrade process will be. If your software runs under Windows 11, the easiest thing to do may be to build a brand new VM with Windows 11, install your software (it's possible that there's a newer version that runs on Windows 11), and move any data files for your application from the old VM to the new one. 

If your software won't run on Windows 11, it may be time to consider replacing it. 

[RaSystemlord]

Thank you Technogeezer for you comprehensive answers - also to my futher clarifications. I thought that this "I moved" / "I copied" business was always about hardware, but it seems that is often an OS system related thing. It is hard to remember exactly - because on recent days - I always answered "I copied", but I think this manifests itself with Win 10 - versus Linux interoperability. It is nasty there, because you don't have (necessarily) a backup, if you do interoperability using an external NTFS disk - by swapping between systems.

As for Win 7 security - it is not that simple to know. You said you are behind a Firewall and behind a NAT (if you are). Then you are relatively safe from external intruders. 

But that is not it. If you are connecting to Internet (or even your company Net if there is an intruder there). You are running some applications. What are they doing - where do they have access? It is safe to assume that not everything works in your VM - it DOES have access to the external world. NOW you are exposed to applications with some security flaws. Those flaws can be used to get - for instance - a total control of you VM. Then, yet again, what can you access with that VM? - now because of that flaw everything is accessible to the intruder. Depending on the use scenario of your VM, the situation is from bad to worse in a corporate network. Even if you are NOT connecting to the Internet, you are spreading the disease in the corporate network. Attackers DO USE the vulnerabilities of older OS'ses. 

So, Win 7 safety depends on the use scenario. Typically, in corporate network, they are not allowed, because you have an unvaccinated system in the network - it is a disease spreader at the minimum. The side effect of the unvaccinated system can be also the death of that system.

As for Win 11 - build something new and try it out there. You would need to consult the software vendor - or their documentation at the minimum - how the Upgrade to newer OS'ses is supposed to happen. It might not be Upgradable at all - underlying Microsoft components have changed and the old system might not run at all on Win 11. If the software dates back to years before Win 7, it probably doesn't run on Win 11. Hopefully the software vendor still exists and you can get a Win 11 compatible version and Upgrade, if needed, your data to the new version. You might need to pay for the software vendor to do that job, if your application is any complicated.

[kasper]

I do not see enough detail info on networking and USB devices from you or the responses to come up with a real answer.   For hardware upgrade, from what I can gather here, buy a NUC.   For software, base it on the app.   I am guessing LaserFiche is the app and not a generic term.   I am guessing this is networked as either file sharing or a network browser app.   If that is the case then Windows 7 guest is not really an option.   For starters MS no longer supports it.   And I believe VMWare does not too.   Again, need more detail on the network and device support attachment.

[Technogeezer]

Running Windows 7 as a VM on a Windows is going to be slightly more secure - at least from the standpoint of the security of the host operating systeem as Windows 11 is generally considered to be more secure than Windows 7.

The Windows 7 VM itself is still considered to be insecure, regardless of the host operating system. I can, however, understand the difficulties that could be involved to move an old application running on an old operating system platform to a newer environment. Hence the desire to move a old VM to newer hardware, but leave the VM as intact as possible. Unfortunately this has the side effect of leaving the VM intact - with the same support and security level as it had before the move. 

[kasper]

Running Windows 7 as either a guest or host is rather insane unless you app has serious software restrictions to move forward.   Given you are doing a hardware update it would be better to try and use new software.   I would not recommend Windows 11.   You can get Windows 2025 server at a very reasonable price.   Windows 11 is really not a hosting platform as it contributes to 3rd parties and is more useful if you want to use AI.