VmWare on linux VM Windows for CAD applications

[Claudio Eterno]

Hi,

I am an avid Linux user, but I urgently need to run a CAD software that requires Windows. While there is one commercial option available for Linux, I prefer to explore other alternatives (Windows based).

My plan is, on my Ubuntu system, to install and run a virtual machine using VMware Workstation with Windows. The CAD software relies heavily on GPU acceleration, so I'm wondering if the virtual machine can utilize the host machine's graphics card effectively (i.e., have direct access or proper passthrough to the GPU).

I would appreciate your suggestions, including whether this approach is advisable or if I should consider abandoning it. Additionally, if it's feasible, could you recommend the best graphics cards for this purpose?

Thank you!

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[RaSystemlord]

I've been using "CAD-software" for a very long time in VMware, since 20 years or so. I don't use any software on the Host, because I have many versions and many projects and many uses for a given cad software. 

However, I have not used any on Linux - I mean, Linux has very often been the Host - and I'm limited to some particular plant design systems, which are OpenGL based.

We started Linux use with Ubuntu, 20 years ago, but nowadays, I don't like it - it has gone downhill - GUI and everything has very obvious bugs, but they just don't care to correct them. Kubuntu, however, is rather nice and my recommendation is to try that. 

I think you have two choices, depending on what your software requirements really are:

1.
Use BricsCAD if it has something for you. It works on Linux - thus no immediate need for VMware. However, for different projects, versions & stuff, you might still want to have VMs, Linux VMs perhaps.

2.
If you really need Windows for running your particular CAD software, VMware is good. Use version 17.5.2 because that is the last VMware Team version - newer ones seem to have very odd problems. I don't know if they are already in their game with that or not. Windows 11 is OK, although worse than Windows 10, but that is Windows for you.

Whether you have this "3D Accelaration support" selectable in VM settings, is no exact science. Back in the day, our top-of-the-line Dell laptop with best graphics didn't support that in Windows. However, the cheapest Nvidia gaming card on a Linux workstation supported 3D Acceleration just fine.

If you have a workstation, you might want to experiment the graphics card. Some software vendors have lists for graphics cards, but not all of them. You have to realize that it is NOT the card itself - it is the drivers. To get the "best" driver, is a mess, perhaps better nowadays, but it used to be a selection of 5 different lines of drivers. Every card has problems in hardware - it is the driver that is either avoiding those bugs or not.

If you have a laptop, then it's harder, read expensive, to select a good card. I have selected in the past (3.5 years ago) Asus ROG Strix with somewhat decent card, not a very expensive laptop (under 2000 euros with 32 GB and stuff) and I have been using my line of CAD software just fine. In plant industry the models are big (in real scale), but they are perhaps not big compared to fine detailed mechanical models. Like I said, I'm familiar only with the first ones. Basically, everything happens nowadays in virtual environment (or Citrix/Horizon) and nothing on physical computers.

Now I have almost the top of the line Asus ROG Strix Scar (with RTX 5080), which IS expensive, but on Windows 11 it does not really feel that much better than the previous Strix. But that is Windows 11 for you. According to my comparisons with Linux/Linux combination and using CPU intensive Handbrake software, Windows/Windows combination may spend 3.5 times the time needed on Linux/Linux.

So, if you can go to Linux, I would at least try it out. If you need Windows, it will work, too, but you may want to have an expensive system, if the performance feels like an issue. Without knowing (and testing) your particular software, it is hard to say what the performance is. But like I explained, the performance in VMware with OpenGL plant industry software, has not been any kind of issue for a very long. There are always fine details, what NOT TO DO, like including VERY large mechanical models within, but those are getting any system stuck - and thus not really relevant to this discussion.

[Claudio Eterno]

Thank you RaSystemlord for your exaustive answer.

Regarding solution 1 I tried out BricsCad and it works fine but it's quite expensive for the job I've to do. Consider that I've to develop a mechanic device and this job requires 2-3 mounts at maximum, and the licence version they propose isn't convenient form me.

Your consideration  "...Every card has problems in hardware - it is the driver that is either avoiding those bugs or not..." make me wonder me a lot. To me seems that create a Windows VM isn't reliable and the risk is to spend a lot of time to reach nothing. The only choose I've is to make a new Win 11 installation  and create a VM for linux Ubuntu...

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[RaSystemlord]

Yeah, I don't have any definite answers for you, but ...

... I just checked with the plant 3D software from the same vendor (but very different development group, license price 5-10 times more than what you have in BricsCAD). My system now was Win 11 Pro, RTX 5080 (mobile) at the host and Win 11 Pro as VM. 3D acceleration works fine and RTX is used up to 30-40 % in a very quick test.

I then took the 3D acceleration off and RTX is used from 10-20 %. Performance was quite alright - you know, Windows itself DOES have the OpenGL capability. BUT the rendering was not OK - parts missing on a tighter "zoom level" - so functionality was not all there. Perhaps that is Windows 11 for you - never seen that before but it would have been Win 10 or before.

Hard to say, how much there is work for testing this - I think it is a learning experience anyway. Everybody should be educated for virtualization - in an international workshop 15 years ago, I paid attention that ALL of your 10 different sessions with different software or setup, took place in VMware and NOTHING on a physical computer. But it is up to your interests, really. Personally, I would build a test workstation from parts and use it for the next 10 years for various of jobs. With different disks, I could have different boots - I mean into Windows and Linuxes. Well, I have a couple of them just like this.

If the job is small, I wonder why do you REALLY need hard support for fast graphics? I'm no expert in mechanical software, but I would think that a small job doesn't requite much. Perhaps your GUI is very dependent on graphics speed - I don't know mechanical software that well. With plant design, I would use anything for that kind of job.

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[RaSystemlord]

As an addition to my previous post:

You obviously want to have Linux, at least on the Host. That is very good, as I gave you examples above.

VMware - like basically everything else - works better on Linux than on Windows. However, you need to be prepared to spend some time for installing VMware on Linux. Broadcom does not give relevant instructions, not in every case anyway. In this Forum, there have been many instructions within last weeks - to get the modules into the Linux kernel is not that easy to hack through. It depends on the kernel version and possibly on the Linux version. Anyway, I spent some time a couple of months ago - so, it took some time to get the correct instructions.

The ideal situation for virtualization, don't know if that is possible for you, would be:
- have a workstation with some selected graphics card
- use possibly a Kubuntu version with NOT the very latest kernel, might work immediately with VMware Workstation
- perhaps 22.04 LTS would be that older version with older kernel (not sure though, what is has with latest updates)
- virtualization, with all of its possibilities for alternative systems by copying VMs, requires lots of space
- with workstation, you can have internal SSD disk as many as you want
- USB 3.2 Gen 2 (and perhaps not those latest ones) works well in VMware

- in professional use, you need to have a proper enclose for the SSD. I use only Asus ROG Strix and Asus TUF Gaming enclosure for nVME, M.2, PCI-e 4.0, SSD disks (NOT SATA, they require different enclosures). Those have USB 3.2 Gen 2.
- I use my old enclosures, too. Some other models work just fine, too ... if you have time to try them out. Some just don't work, that is Chinese quality for you. Also ordinary SATA disks (2.5") might be just OK, if you have them hanging around.

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[Morc001]

@Claudio: to answer your question regarding GPU usage, there's no PCI passthrough in Workstation, so your GPU can't be utilized by the VM natively. Unless the 3D acceleration provided by Workstation is usable by the CAD software you're out of luck in my opinion.

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[louyo]

To add to that, if running your application on Workstation is not successful. To have GPU pass through, we run on ESXi. There is now a free version, not sure if there are any restrictions (we are licensed). I also recommend Debian with the Mate Desktop. Been running it for many years. Ubuntu is based on Debian, but they mess with it too much for my taste. 

Good luck.

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[Claudio Eterno]

Thank you all for your help.

I choose this system: Ryzen 9 5950x on this board ASUS PRIME B850-PLUS-CSM.

Do you think it is possible to run ESXi?

Thank you again
C.

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[Morc001]

You can run ESXi on any CPU that supports hardware virtualization (all Ryzens do). But you know that ESXi has no GUI, just a text UI and you can't interact with the VMs' console from the console of the ESXi machine, right? ESXi is a true hypervisor, not like Workstation or Player which are desktop virtualization environments. You can only remote desktop to them or access the ESXi webpage and open the console that way from another PC/phone/tablet on the same network or if you map the HTTPS port on your router, then the internet.

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[louyo]

Just another option: I am running ESXi version 8 and can use Vmware Player (on my debian system) to open a console on any of the virtual machines.  

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[Claudio Eterno]

But... 

do you run the debian gui on the physical system where resides ESXi?
That is: do you use one or more systems ?

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[Morc001]

@Claudio: you can't run anything else on the machine directly, just ESXi. It has a text interface and that's it. You need another machine/tablet/phone to access the VMs running under ESXi. So you need at least two devices.

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[Bill_A]

ESXi has a GUI in addition to text. ESX boots into text, however you can http into the UI after boot. you can do basically the same guest settings as workstation. i dont recall if there is a 3D acceleration option with ESXi, you may need vCenter for that. if you need vCenter youll need to allocate 16GB(suggested) of RAM for it, ive gotten away with 8GB. however you need a license for vCenter

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[RaSystemlord]

No admin experience on ESXi, but hardware looks nice. I had Ryzen 9 on my Win 10 laptop and it worked well.

[kasper]

You probably want to run CAD apps on a type 2 hypervisor.   Because that would in all

likely hood give you the best video performance.   ESXi is a type 1 hypervisor.   And my

understanding is that in order to use a 'guest' on it you need a 2ND PHYSICAL MACHINE

instead of just 1   And that physical machine must go through the network which adds

more complexity, additional costs, and other limitations.

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[Markku Lehtola]

Hi, little bit old, but may help in case Solidworks is your cad:

https://youtu.be/yLS0YBtDpfU?si=IP1W1_OWAwBwLkfN

I have a plan to go back to this arrangement as soon as possible with new hardware.

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