XP Pro OEM activation

[Josiah30]

Hi all,

I have recently reinstalled a virtual machine on a MacBook running VMWare Fusion 2.0.7. I am using an OEM key that has been succesfully used before on the same MacBook to activate windows. I have not used the VM as a Boot Camp machine, or in Parallels, or any other sort of other virtualization software.

When trying to start the VM, it says "This copy of Windows must be activated with Microsoft before you can log on. Do you want to activate Windows now?". The first time it came up I clicked Yes and went through Internet activation and it said "Windows has been activated succesfully." It then logged me out and is giving me the "This copy of Windows..." message again. I click "Yes" and try to activate again. Now it says "Windows was unable to activate online", so I go the telephone route. The first two times it didn't give me an installation ID, but I read somewhere that restarting can fix this, so I restarted the VM a few times and got an installation ID. I then phoned the automated service and put in the number they gave. It accepted the number, said I had succesfully activated windows, and gave me a "Finish" button. I clicked that, it logged me out, and sends me back to "This copy of Windows..." again. I click "Yes" once more, and it tells me "Windows is already activated. Click OK to exit." I click OK, and it takes me back to the "This copy of Windows..." message again.

I am stuck in a loop now. I seem to have no way to resolve this issue. I have tried a complete reinstall twice, and have gone through the exact same sequence. Again, this OEM key should not be locked to any particular hardware because it was working with this exact same MacBook previously, albeit with slightly different virtual hardware settings. Still, the fact that it worked on any virtual machine means it should not be locked to any manufacturer's hardware.

So, does anyone have any ideas here?

[Michael Roy]

Most OEM builds are limited to a small number of activations, to which it then prompts for phone activation. If you've gone down that road a few times, it may be that MS is unwilling to re-license your installation. You'd have to speak with someone at MS to see if your license permits the sort of use that you're doing/have done.

[Josiah30]

I would have thought that too, but why would it say that I succesfully activated Windows if that's the case?

Wouldn't it have just failed?

[RParker]

First of all this is a direct violation of software EULA. OEM keys are HARDWARE, it belongs on the HARDWARE (not virtual machines, not another machine, the machine that disk came with).

Secondly this is a Microsoft issue, you need to resolve it with Microsoft. We can't help you with licensing, since this is no way related to VM Ware.

[Josiah30]

Except it didn't come with a machine. You can purchase OEM keys from online retailers seperately from machines.

[WoodyZ]

Except it didn't come with a machine. You can purchase OEM keys from online retailers seperately from machines.

So what! The bottom line is if you're not an OEM as defined by the OEM EULA you're not entitled to install it and furthermore to comply with the OEM EULA it must then be distributed to a third party meaning you cannot buy and install OEM Windows for your own personal use.

In other words just because you can buy it doesn't mean you have the legal right to utilize the product.

[ColoradoMarmot]

Yes, and it's a violation of the license agreement. I can buy a fake rolex on the streets of New York, but that doesn't mean Rolex will service it.

Microsoft does not support OEM licenses. They will refer you to the hardware manufacturer for support (that's the first thing you hear on their voice mail). It's cheap because there is NO support.

[Josiah30]

So, what I'm gathering here is that it's illegal to run any OEM license as a VM? That seems a bit odd to me, since VMWare talks about how to do it in various places.

If it matters, this isn't for my personal use, but rather for a person employed by the same organization as me (I'm in the IT department).

[WoodyZ]

So, what I'm gathering here is that it's illegal to run any OEM license as a VM? That seems a bit odd to me, since VMWare talks about how to do it in various places.

No, under the right conditions it's completely legal and within the confines of the OEM/System Builders EULA.

If it matters, this isn't for my personal use, but rather for a person employed by the same organization as me (I'm in the IT department).

Used in this manner it is fine however more organizations tend to use Volume Licensing vs. OEM although as long as it done within the confines of the EULA it doesn't matter.

[Josiah30]

Okay, so we (as an organization) purchased this copy of the OEM software to redistribute to an employee of our organization. We intended it entirely for use as a virtual machine, it has never and likely will never be installed on another machine. We simply needed to reinstall the virtual machine because the old one became corrupted and a snapshot was unfortunately never taken.

So then, is this legal? And if so, is there a solution to this problem that is known here? Or will I have to attempt to convince Microsoft Support to help me?

[WoodyZ]

Okay, so we (as an organization) purchased this copy of the OEM software to redistribute to an employee of our organization. We intended it entirely for use as a virtual machine, it has never and likely will never be installed on another machine. We simply needed to reinstall the virtual machine because the old one became corrupted and a snapshot was unfortunately never taken.

While Snapshots have there place it is better to have a complete copy of the Virtual Machine that was made while it was shutdown, not suspended and Fusion closed. This should be done after the Virtual Machine is built out with the Guest OS, Applications and Updates installed and Product Activation has been done. This should be the Base Image from which to recover regardless of whether or not Snapshots are then employed. If this was a Physical Machine, after all the work that goes into it, I would have made a Ghost Image although with Virtual Machines a properly made copy is just as good. This should always be done before allowing a User to touch the System.

So then, is this legal? And if so, is there a solution to this problem that is known here? Or will I have to attempt to convince Microsoft Support to help me?

You need to read the specific EULA that accompanied the product you're using however I have copied of OEM/System Builder version of Windows in which the case use you're describing is allowed although in any case Windows Product Activation is between you and Microsoft so you will need to contact Microsoft to resolve this issue.

[ColoradoMarmot]

Microsoft support will likely refer you to the hardware vendor that supplied the OEM license.

[WoodyZ]

Microsoft support will likely refer you to the hardware vendor that supplied the OEM license.

Any other issues involving OEM I'd expect to be referred to the vendor however since WPA it occurring with Microsoft Servers they have an obligation to assist in this.

YMMW However Microsoft has never referred me to the vendor for WPA issues and has always take care of WPA issues via automated systems and or talking directly to a technician.

[ColoradoMarmot]

Cool - different experience then. Might be worth calling back if he get's an answer he doesn't like :smileyhappy:

[WoodyZ]

I've personally never been refused however I know some who have and called back and were eventually taken care of.

[Josiah30]

I tried Microsoft support. They wanted to charge me like $70 for support. I'm just installing a retail version that we have instead. It's already installed on another computer, so I know it's breaking the EULA, but I'm beyond caring about that at this point. We have a legal license that isn't working, so whatever.

[khughes]

While like everyone said the EULA is tied to the hardware (how the OEM works). There are ways around it, since we ran into this when some of our DR plans for desktops was to keep virtual copies around but when we went to power them on the activation would come up. All you have to do is try and activate it, let it fail with your key is no longer valid, then re-enter in the OEM key and wa-la it'll accept it and you can go on your way.

• Kyle

[asatoran]

While like everyone said the EULA is tied to the hardware (how the OEM works). There are ways around it, since we ran into this when some of our DR plans for desktops was to keep virtual copies around but when we went to power them on the activation would come up. All you have to do is try and activate it, let it fail with your key is no longer valid, then re-enter in the OEM key and wa-la it'll accept it and you can go on your way.

• Kyle

This doesn't work with all OEM variants of Windows. Specifically, branded OEM versions (e.g.: Dell, HP) often will not reactivate when it detects the "wrong" hardware. "Whitebox" OEM versions may reactivate. (Or it might not, depending on what you got.) The usually recommended (legal) method to reactivate a OEM version of Windows onto different hardware is to boot with a retail or volume license version of Windows disk, then do a "repair install". That will reload the drive with whatever version on your Windows disk, but retain your installed applications and settings. IOW, you're replacing the OEM version of Windows with a non-OEM version, thus no issues with the OEM product key and activation.

[khughes]

By all means I'm not saying its ok to do anything illegal, I'm just stating what I have found to work for me. I will state that the process I stated above works on "branded" hardware, specifically Dell and using the OEM sticker on the side with the Windows key code. This was also with a Windows XP Pro OEM license and key, I haven't tested the process with Vista / Win 7 yet.

Regardless these are the issues that people run into when they purchase a computer with OEM software / purchase OEM versions on their builds. It's cheap yes but it comes at a cost when you want to move it around a little or make changes to your system. I justify the process for DR purposes and am not abusing the system to enable multiple versions of that OEM key.

• Kyle

[WoodyZ]

OEM Windows previoulsy installed on physical hardware, such as Dell, lives and dies with that physical hardware and transferring it to other physical hardware and or a virtual machine violates the EULA. Also the reason the Product Key on the COA works is because it is not the same PK that is used by the OEM when installing to begin with as they use a different one, just look in the \i386\system32\winnt.sif file on the CD.

[asatoran]

@khughes: my point of contention was with your statement that "all you have to do is try to reactivate...reenter the OEM key and wala...." I have experimented with this in the past, and my experience is that it will NOT always reactivate in a virtual machine. Whitebox versions are most likely to reactivate correctly because it's not tied to specific hardware. If a virtual machine is set with a certain config line, then branded OEM versions may reactivate if the physical hardware is a compatible model. (e.g.: HP branded OEM XP-Pro will not reactivate properly if physically or virtually running on a HP Proliant server...at least not the copies I have access to. And Dell OEM XP-Pro in a VM running on physical HP in VMware Workstation will not reactivate.) So my point is that my experience leads me to disagree with the inference that OEM versions of Windows will always reactivate on different hardware. Windows will reactivate without a repair install under certain circumstances, but not always. (And we'll leave the legalities for others to debate. :smileyhappy: )

[WoodyZ]

Yes setting the legalities aside lets look at part of what Kyle said, "I will state that the process I stated above works on "branded" hardware, specifically Dell and using the OEM sticker on the side with the Windows key code." and the key thing here is he's using the Product Key on the COA not the one that Dell uses to install with as that can be found in the \i386\system32\winnt.sif file on the CD and the one in that file works on Dell Physical Hardware but will not work in a Virtual Machine under any configurations. The one on the COA will work in a Virtual Machine. It has for me anyway even though it was done for testing/recovery purposes and was not actually used for ongoing production use. An interesting point is that the Product Key in the \i386\system32\winnt.sif file on the CD actually does not require activation on the Physical Machine yet the one on the OEM COA does. To be clear I'm talking about Windows Product Activation not Windows Genuine Advantage that is required to receive Updates as that is necessary with either the internal PK or the PK on the COA.

Message was edited by: WoodyZ

Changed Kevin to Kyle. :smileyhappy:

[asatoran]

@WoodyZ: Yes, I too am referring to the COA not always working in a virtual machine, and yes, I too am referring to WPA and not WGA. My experience is that branded OEM version of Windows will not always reactivate when moved to different hardware (virtual or physical.) It sometimes will (e.g.: P2V and running the VM on the same physical hardware.) but I have experienced some where it did not. Perhaps the machines I got was some factory remanufactured unit where an incorrect key label was given or something. But having seen the failure more than once with more than one brand, I'll stick with my statement that reactivation is not a guarantee. Regardless, if one is able to reactivate, then I'm all the happy for them. :smileyhappy: And if you and Kyle have never had a failed reactivation of an OEM key, then I'll consider you both blessed. (I'm gonna look for my rabbit's foot now. :smileyhappy: )

[VmVPN]

If you are at the point of violating the EULA, HP and DELL OEMs are intrinsically tied to the BIOS (SLP) - there are ways to get this to boot ( bios440 = "XXX.ROM")